Philosophy Now Forum

Is lying a form of murder, this of a shared nature, for a lie cuts one off from the reality they need to sustain others and themselves and this reality is genuineness?

Legally? No.

And if you consider lying equivalent to telling an untruth, not even philosophically.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 29, 2024 2:40 am Is lying a form of murder, this of a shared nature, for a lie cuts one off from the reality they need to sustain others and themselves and this reality is genuineness?

To lie, is to communicate the unknown. To communicate the known, is to communicate the truth. In this conception.

John 8:44 ESV
''You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.''

What do those words mean?

Fairy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2025 2:18 pm John 8:44 ESV
''You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.''

What do those words mean?

As a matter of curiosity, what do you believe Jesus had in mind? Also, where does your post just prior fit into with this?

Fairy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2025 2:18 pm John 8:44 ESV
''You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.''

What do those words mean?

To lie is to kill for a lie destroys genuine awareness by blinding it in a manner where attention ceases, and genuine awareness is how existence occurs attention is what brings forth change that allows things to manifest distinctly. Life is the depths of awareness, to see is to live.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2025 5:36 pm

Fairy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2025 2:18 pm John 8:44 ESV
''You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.''

What do those words mean?

To lie is to kill for a lie destroys genuine awareness by blinding it in a manner where attention ceases, and genuine awareness is how existence occurs attention is what brings forth change that allows things to manifest distinctly. Life is the depths of awareness, to see is to live.

If lying is murder, jaywalking is assault and battery, driving over the speed limit is grand larceny, and posting stupid things on the internet is mail fraud.

"Show me a man who don't lie, and I'll show you a man who ain't got much to say." -- Mark Twain.

Alexiev wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 9:55 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2025 5:36 pm

Fairy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2025 2:18 pm John 8:44 ESV
''You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.''

What do those words mean?

To lie is to kill for a lie destroys genuine awareness by blinding it in a manner where attention ceases, and genuine awareness is how existence occurs attention is what brings forth change that allows things to manifest distinctly. Life is the depths of awareness, to see is to live.

If lying is murder, jaywalking is assault and battery, driving over the speed limit is grand larceny, and posting stupid things on the internet is mail fraud.

"Show me a man who don't lie, and I'll show you a man who ain't got much to say." -- Mark Twain.

A lie kills who a person is and could be, identity is life.

Labeling telling an untruth a negative, presumes that the recipient of the information deserves the truth. Which is the case <100% of the time.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 1:00 am
A lie kills who a person is and could be, identity is life.

Not if the person is a liar, it doesn't.

I suppose contradictions are a part of the religious tradition: Death is birth, etc. But it's silly to say "lying is a form of murder." Why do we have different words? Lies are lies; murder is murder, a rose is a rose.

Alexiev wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 2:16 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 1:00 am
A lie kills who a person is and could be, identity is life.

Not if the person is a liar, it doesn't.

I suppose contradictions are a part of the religious tradition: Death is birth, etc. But it's silly to say "lying is a form of murder." Why do we have different words? Lies are lies; murder is murder, a rose is a rose.

Jesus repeatedly emphasized the point the He spoke in figurative language. There's a metaphor at play there. It's one of the many reasons that many Christians don't understand much of what Jesus was saying. Especially Evangelical Christians in the US with their chosen methodology of "plain reading". Jesus was a great conceptual thinker. Attempting to understand what He was saying in a simplistic manner doesn't work.

The irony of course is that Jesus is speaking of those who don't understand Him in the verse quoted by Fairy. That they are Children of Satan whilst they believe themselves to be Children of God. Is it any wonder that so many Evangelical Christians are so unlike, if not the antithesis of, Jesus?

John 8
43Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot listen to My word. 44You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies.

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 3:20 am

Alexiev wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 2:16 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 1:00 am
A lie kills who a person is and could be, identity is life.

Not if the person is a liar, it doesn't.

I suppose contradictions are a part of the religious tradition: Death is birth, etc. But it's silly to say "lying is a form of murder." Why do we have different words? Lies are lies; murder is murder, a rose is a rose.

Jesus repeatedly emphasized the point the He spoke in figurative language. There's a metaphor at play there. It's one of the many reasons that many Christians don't understand what Jesus was saying. Especially Evangelical Christians in the US with their chosen methodology of "plain reading". Jesus was a great conceptual thinker. Attempting to understand what He was saying in a simplistic manner doesn't work.

Given the variable meanings to symbols sometimes, not always, deep truths need to be expressed alleghorically or metaphorically as the deeper the truth the more layered it is...and symbolism allows this. I remember reading a Taoist philosopher who claimed that some truths can only be expressed through poetry.

Alexiev wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 2:16 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 1:00 am
A lie kills who a person is and could be, identity is life.

Not if the person is a liar, it doesn't.

I suppose contradictions are a part of the religious tradition: Death is birth, etc. But it's silly to say "lying is a form of murder." Why do we have different words? Lies are lies; murder is murder, a rose is a rose.

The liar destroys the genuineness that allows the soul to breath and when the soul cannot breath it becomes crippled and dies soon after. Who we are within forms the reality around us as the act of paying attention transmutes the reality of experience by our release into it. The more genuine we are the more genuine reality is.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 3:41 am

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 3:20 am

Alexiev wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 2:16 am

Not if the person is a liar, it doesn't.

I suppose contradictions are a part of the religious tradition: Death is birth, etc. But it's silly to say "lying is a form of murder." Why do we have different words? Lies are lies; murder is murder, a rose is a rose.

Jesus repeatedly emphasized the point the He spoke in figurative language. There's a metaphor at play there. It's one of the many reasons that many Christians don't understand what Jesus was saying. Especially Evangelical Christians in the US with their chosen methodology of "plain reading". Jesus was a great conceptual thinker. Attempting to understand what He was saying in a simplistic manner doesn't work.

Given the variable meanings to symbols sometimes, not always, deep truths need to be expressed alleghorically or metaphorically as the deeper the truth the more layered it is...and symbolism allows this. I remember reading a Taoist philosopher who claimed that some truths can only be expressed through poetry.

Actually, for the most part the metaphors used by Jesus are quite straightforward. It's not about "poetry".

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 3:44 am
The liar destroys the genuineness that allows the soul to breath and when the soul cannot breath it becomes crippled and dies soon after. Who we are within forms the reality around us as the act of paying attention transmutes the reality of experience by our release into it. The more genuine we are the more genuine reality is.

Souls don't breathe. Bodies do. Besides, if the liar destroys his own soul he is more like a suicide than a murderer.