Philosophy Now Forum

John Shand explains why free will is basic to humanity.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/164/Why_is_Freedom_So_Important_To_Us

I like to think of freedom in terms of electrical circuits. Voltage is potential; current is actual movement. Current cannot happen in the absence of a load, or resistance. Voltage in the absence of a load is unrealized potential.

In the same way, we humans have the potential for freedom, and for activated freedom, free thoughts, free actions, consciously chosen principles, but this requires work. we must not allow others to build our circuits for us, or to discourage us from building out. We are electrical beings in process of constant self-creation, but everyone wants some of our voltage...

Or conversely why is the concept that you make no "choices", is so caustic to the human psyche? That all of your pondering, pro and conning, running possible scenarios is all an illusion, you were always going to have pancakes for breakfast? The loss of the concept of responsibility, culpability and ownership.

if there is no freedom of choice, how can there be moral responsibility?

-Imp

Impenitent wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2024 12:31 am if there is no freedom of choice, how can there be moral responsibility?

-Imp

Because moral responsibility is defined by action. A choice is a thought. Thoughts cannot be morally responsible or irresponsible.

If someone without knowledge of moral responsibility inadvertently commits a morally irresponsible action, as defined by society, and if the person must answer to a societal authority for that morally irresponsible action, then that person is still responsible for the morally irresponsible action.

The consideration of ignorance of the law (or of what constitutes moral responsibility), if that ignorance is plausible, is taken into consideration by a society’s representatives who are responsible for deciding the actions of society that will theoretically insure that it not happen again. The actions of society may range from constructive education, to financial discomfort, to physical discomfort, to financial or physical pain, to execution, depending on the situation.

Once the miscreant knows what is irresponsible, then knowingly must do what is morally irresponsible, then he is responsible to his conscience. The effects of that should not be underestimated, as many combat veterans can attest.

Some societal definitions of moral responsibility correspond to natural human inclinations, and some do not. For example, certain designated authorities will shoot your dog dead if it's interfering with official actions, however their designated dogs can rip you to shreds on morally responsible command, designed to save the bother of a human foot chase.

do you not choose how to act?

-Imp

Impenitent wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2024 2:58 pm do you not choose how to act?

-Imp

Everyone does what they must do. Everyone's actions are caused by the situation, and the individual's predilection. Choice is simply a matter of clearing away the confusion so that what must be done, which was always there to be known, is discovered. Given the same situation, two people may need to perform the same action, or they may need to perform different actions. Whatever the person does is what had to be done. If someone thinks he needs to mow the lawn, and chooses in thought to mow the lawn but instead has a couple of drinks and takes a siesta instead of mowing the lawn, then the drinks and the siesta is what the person really needed to do and just didn't know it. Action determines the choice.

If one doesn't choose but rather simply does what must be done, awareness is then free of choice and naturally gravitates to philosophy, in the sense of naturally regarding daily happenings in the context of the big picture ... which is why freedom is important to us.

No choice about dressing sharp:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOmWxIvK2Do

(continued)

Here's a real life example that illustrates the point.

One need not know the particulars of the situation to know that given her proclivities, she had no choice but to do this, and she is still responsible for doing it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25AUCNZKEnY

you must eat cheese pizza

-Imp

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 9:02 pm you must eat cheese pizza

-Imp

Only if I must, and given the increasing sophistication of my palate that naturally determines energy needs, combined with the acidic properties of suspicious cheese and tomahtoes upon the tummy, and given the limited time left on the planet, that's not a regret I'm likely to entertain, and neither can I imagine such temptations of hunger that would drive me to such need, having lost all desire for pizza after the repetition became tedious.

but it was predetermined that you must eat cheese pizza

choosing to add pepperoni?

-Imp

Impenitent wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2024 12:52 am but it was predetermined that you must eat cheese pizza

choosing to add pepperoni?

-Imp

If circumstances should conspire to cause necessary pepperoni consumption, no doubt.

Doing what’s necessary equates to predetermination?
That sounds like some limited concept is wagging the dog to shape apprehension of what's happening now.

The causation implied by the Butterfly Effect in fact gets swallowed up in indeterminate chaos.

conspiring circumstances force belief in free will

-Imp

Why is Freedom So Important To Us?

Becuz we perceive ourselves, without exception, as having (or, as I like to say, as being) free wills. Each of us, including all the determinists, live as though we are the source or cause of our choices; we live as though our choices matter; and we live as though we are responsible for our choices, and the consequences of our choices.

Even those who do wrong, and who look to weasel their way out of payin' the price for their wrong-doing, live as though they're responsible for themselves.

If this sense of agency is an illusion (and I don't think it is an illusion) then it is a most persistent one. And we'll never be rid of it.

So, freedom is important to us becuz we believe we are free, we live as though we are free, and we all loath the idea of not being free.