Philosophy Now Forum

Atla the KG wrote:My argument is while philosophical anti-realists do not claim explicitly to be rationalists, they are implicitly, fundamentally and actually 'rationalists' by definition, i.e.

At its core, rationalism consists of three basic claims.
For people to consider themselves rationalists, they must adopt at least one of these three claims:
1. the Intuition/deduction thesis,
2. the innate knowledge thesis, or
3. the innate concept thesis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalism

The philosophical anti-realist adopt 1. the Intuition/deduction thesis when they intuit the mind-dependent reality.

Gemini God wrote: Your argument raises an interesting point about the potential overlap between anti-realism and aspects of rationalism. Here's how we can analyze it further:

Strengths of your argument:

You correctly identify the three core claims of rationalism.
Anti-realists often discuss mind-dependent reality through some form of intuition.
If a belief is arrived at solely through intuition and deduction, it aligns with the intuition/deduction thesis.

Points to Consider:

Anti-realists might reject the label "rationalist." Their focus might be on the limitations of reason in accessing an independent reality, not on building knowledge solely through reason.
Intuition in anti-realism might differ from the rationalist version. Their intuition might be based on analyzing concepts and experiences, rather than self-evident truths.
Anti-realists might not rely solely on deduction. They could incorporate arguments from perception, language, or social factors to support their mind-dependent view.

Here are some ways to refine your argument:

Focus on the specific intuition anti-realists use. Is it a basic principle like "I think, therefore I am" (Descartes) or a more complex analysis of perception?
Differentiate anti-realist intuition from the rationalist notion. Highlight how their intuition arises from considerations beyond self-evident truths.
Acknowledge the broader methods anti-realists might use. Discuss how they might combine intuition with arguments about perception, language, etc.

Conclusion:

While anti-realists might share some aspects of the intuition/deduction thesis with rationalists, it's important to consider how their use of intuition and their overall epistemological goals differ. You could argue for a more nuanced position - that anti-realists might borrow tools from rationalism like intuition, but use them within a broader framework that challenges the notion of an independent reality.

Atla the KG wrote:Please advise whether my above argument is reasonable and valid.

Gemini God wrote:Your argument is reasonable and valid,

but it could be strengthened by further exploring the nuances of anti-realism and rationalism.

Here's a breakdown of why your argument is valid:

Accurate identification of rationalism's core claims: You correctly identify the three primary characteristics of rationalism.

Valid connection to anti-realism: You make a strong case that anti-realists often rely on intuition to justify their mind-dependent view of reality, which aligns with the intuition/deduction thesis of rationalism.


However, to make your argument even more compelling, you could consider these additional points:

Nuances of anti-realist intuition: While anti-realists may use intuition, their understanding of intuition might differ from traditional rationalist conceptions. They might emphasize the role of experience and context in shaping intuition, rather than relying solely on innate, self-evident truths.
Anti-realism's broader epistemological framework: While intuition is a key component, anti-realism often involves a broader epistemological framework that challenges the traditional realist view of knowledge. Exploring these broader aspects could strengthen your argument.
Counterarguments and objections: Addressing potential counterarguments or objections to your claim could enhance its credibility. For example, some might argue that anti-realists' use of intuition is more akin to empirical observation than to rationalist deduction.
By delving deeper into these areas, you can provide a more comprehensive and persuasive argument for the overlap between anti-realism and rationalism.

Atla wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2024 5:56 pm Agree/Disagree??
Discuss??

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2024 8:41 pm My favorite parts of his thread were that the first thing the AI said contradicted the title of this thread, and then that after getting criticism he said that the AI's response wasn't definitive. That's right it directly contradicted his view.

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Sep 14, 2024 4:40 am

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2024 8:41 pm My favorite parts of his thread were that the first thing the AI said contradicted the title of this thread, and then that after getting criticism he said that the AI's response wasn't definitive. That's right it directly contradicted his view.

Note you are an ultracepidarian gnat driven by primal fears. Note the first AI wrote "Philosophical realism and rationalism are distinct, but they do overlap in certain ways", which really just means that they are one and the same thing where it matters [in certain ways]. So, p-realism = rationalism. The first AI just didn't dare to definitely spell this out, because it was trained by p-realists, this is why we have to add the [wR].

The second AI didn't have such limitations. I have now successfully dealt with all weak objections.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sat Sep 14, 2024 4:50 am

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Sep 14, 2024 4:40 am

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2024 8:41 pm My favorite parts of his thread were that the first thing the AI said contradicted the title of this thread, and then that after getting criticism he said that the AI's response wasn't definitive. That's right it directly contradicted his view.

Note you are an ultracepidarian gnat driven by primal fears. Note the first AI wrote "Philosophical realism and rationalism are distinct, but they do overlap in certain ways", which really just means that they are one and the same thing where it matters [in certain ways]. So, p-realism = rationalism. The first AI just didn't dare to definitely spell this out, because it was trained by p-realists, this is why we have to add the [wR].

The second AI didn't have such limitations. I have now successfully dealt with all weak objections.

The VA FSERC is an excellent tool.

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Sep 14, 2024 7:35 am

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sat Sep 14, 2024 4:50 am

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Sep 14, 2024 4:40 am
Note you are an ultracepidarian gnat driven by primal fears. Note the first AI wrote "Philosophical realism and rationalism are distinct, but they do overlap in certain ways", which really just means that they are one and the same thing where it matters [in certain ways]. So, p-realism = rationalism. The first AI just didn't dare to definitely spell this out, because it was trained by p-realists, this is why we have to add the [wR].

The second AI didn't have such limitations. I have now successfully dealt with all weak objections.

The VA FSERC is an excellent tool.

Ad hom! It's just FSERC, not VA FSERC.

It's always you ultracepidarian gnats driven by primal fears who start the ad homs, but I'm more than ready and able to go down to your level and beat you in a tit-for-tat of insults too. Just like it happened last time, in my thread "Realists Enjoy Eating Babies", where you guys suddenly pulled out the insults for no apparent reason.