Philosophy Now Forum

Judaism is the original version of monotheism.

Why monotheism?

First of all, for political reasons.

If you allow polytheism, then sooner or later the emperor of Rome (or China) will insist that he is also a god, or at least, that he is the adoptive son of one, i.e. the divi filius. Only God is allowed to create laws, but the political rulers actually also want that privilege. It is our job to prevent them from getting it. We can achieve this by religiously believing that the ruler cannot have that privilege.

While God's law is meant to bring justice, the emperor's law is meant to justify injustices.

Can a parliament or a congress create new laws?

No, because behind that parliament or congress sits a hidden version of the emperor, i.e. a mafia boss with his gang of oligarchs.

If you are not born a Jew, the Jews generally won't take you in. So, if you want monotheism, you will have to adopt a version of monotheism that is open to the gentiles. Christianity is not monotheist and is therefore not an option. Christianity is more than happy to let the emperor invent new laws. In Christianity, God's law is a curse. This Christian view opens the door wide open for the emperor to come in and start inventing whatever law he wants.

Hence, by elimination, that only leaves Islam.

godelian wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 7:52 am Judaism is the original version of monotheism.

Why monotheism?

First of all, for political reasons.

If you allow polytheism, then sooner or later the emperor of Rome (or China) will insist that he is also a god, or at least, that he is the adoptive son of one, i.e. the divi filius. Only God is allowed to create laws, but the political rulers actually also want that privilege. It is our job to prevent them from getting it. We can achieve this by religiously believing that the ruler cannot have that privilege.

While God's law is meant to bring justice, the emperor's law is meant to justify injustices.

Can a parliament or a congress create new laws?

No, because behind that parliament or congress sits a hidden version of the emperor, i.e. a mafia boss with his gang of oligarchs.

If you are not born a Jew, the Jews generally won't take you in. So, if you want monotheism, you will have to adopt a version of monotheism that is open to the gentiles. Christianity is not monotheist and is therefore not an option. Christianity is more than happy to let the emperor invent new laws. In Christianity, God's law is a curse. This Christian view opens the door wide open for the emperor to come in and start inventing whatever law he wants.

Hence, by elimination, that only leaves Islam.

How does ISLAM portray itself to be of an Abrahamic origin when Muhammed clearly is contrary to pretty much every commandment that Moses received @ Mt SIN_AI and contrary to the teachings of Christ?

attofishpi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 9:02 am How does ISLAM portray itself to be of an Abrahamic origin when Muhammed clearly is contrary to pretty much every commandment that Moses received @ Mt SIN_AI and contrary to the teachings of Christ?

Islam is Abrahamic because large fragments of its law are bi-interpretable with Mosaic law.

In what sense did Moses and Muhammad hold contrary views?

That is not the reason why Jews do not accept Muhammad as their prophet. The reason is because Muhammad was not a Jew. I am myself not a Jew. So, I am not going to reject a prophet just because he isn't a Jew.

Concerning Christ, unlike Moses and Muhammad, he was not the leader of his society, and therefore never had to fight any wars. Christ was under Roman control. He wasn't a sovereign leader. Therefore, you cannot compare him to Moses or Muhammad.

godelian wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 7:52 am Judaism is the original version of monotheism.

So, to this one anyway, there could not have been absolutely any other 'isms' before 'the ones' that this one only knows about.

godelian wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 7:52 am Why monotheism?

Maybe because there is, really, only One Universe, and thus only One 'all-there-is'. There is, obviously, only One True, Right, Accurate, and Correct version, or story, of Everything also.

So, maybe why there is 'monotheism', and not two nor more, is because in all actuality there really is only One.

godelian wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 7:52 am First of all, for political reasons.

If you allow polytheism, then sooner or later the emperor of Rome (or China) will insist that he is also a god, or at least, that he is the adoptive son of one, i.e. the divi filius.

And, far, far worse is that some of you will believe that 'this' is true and that 'they' are.

godelian wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 7:52 am Only God is allowed to create laws, but the political rulers actually also want that privilege. It is our job to prevent them from getting it.

What are you on about here? It is you adult human beings who, voluntarily, hand over and give 'some' 'the power' to create and make 'rules', which in turn 'rule over' 'you'.

If you stopped giving 'power and control' to 'others', then there would not be any 'rulers' nor 'controllers' 'of you'.

LOL Why you adult human beings vote in so-called "leaders" makes some Truly wonder.

And, worse still, 'look at' some of the so-called "leaders" that 'you' have 'chosen' for "yourselves", in the days when this is being written.

It is like you adult human beings have been so absolutely indoctrinated, deceived, blinded, and fooled that you cannot even 'recognize' and 'see' what is going on. After all you, still, call some 'others' "leaders", and, still, seek out, and fight and kill each other, over 'some' being 'voted in'. How Truly non grown up and immature are you, as, supposedly, adult human beings, that you, still, actually believe that you 'need' others to 'look after' and 'care' 'for you'. It is like you have never really 'grown up' since like you were, literally, 'baby infants'.

godelian wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 7:52 am We can achieve this by religiously believing that the ruler cannot have that privilege.

But, why would anyone of you 'religious believe' the exact opposite thing of what you say, and do?

Some of you adult human beings actually say, and even some insist, that others vote some in to have the very privilege of making rules and ruling 'over you'.

godelian wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 7:52 am While God's law is meant to bring justice, the emperor's law is meant to justify injustices.

Can a parliament or a congress create new laws?

No, because behind that parliament or congress sits a hidden version of the emperor, i.e. a mafia boss with his gang of oligarchs.

So, supposedly, 'now' behind any and every 'law', which includes the 'capturing' and 'bringing down' of so-called "mafia bosses and their gang of others" sits a "mafia boss with their gang of others".

godelian wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 7:52 am If you are not born a Jew,

Which, obviously, absolutely no one is, nor even 'could be'.

godelian wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 7:52 am the Jews generally won't take you in.

But, there is no so-called "jew" anyway. As anyone who tries to define one always fails.

godelian wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 7:52 am So, if you want monotheism,

If you say and claim here that one could 'want' 'monotheism', then 'you' will have to define, for 'us', what 'monotheism' is, exactly?

See, what you are saying and claiming here could not like saying and claiming, 'If you want a 'land of fairies'.

godelian wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 7:52 am you will have to adopt a version of monotheism that is open to the gentiles.

And, conversely, if you want 'your story' here, then you will have to adopt 'a version of your story', which is open to absolutely every one. Unless, of course, you just 'want' 'your story' to remain, exactly, how 'it' is, no matter how False, Wrong, Inaccurate, and Incorrect 'it' is.

But, then again, you believe [in] 'your own story', and version, right?

godelian wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 7:52 am Christianity is not monotheist and is therefore not an option. Christianity is more than happy to let the emperor invent new laws. In Christianity, God's law is a curse.

Is this what "christians" say. Or, just what 'you' say, and 'want'.

Also, what form of "christianity" is God's law a curse, supposedly?

godelian wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 7:52 am This Christian view opens the door wide open for the emperor to come in and start inventing whatever law he wants.

Hence, by elimination, that only leaves Islam.

What is 'that', exactly, which has, supposedly, 'logically' I imagine you to believe, led to, only, leaving "islam"?

Age wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 4:41 am Also, what form of "christianity" is God's law a curse, supposedly?

Galatians 3:13. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”

godelian wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 5:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 4:41 am Also, what form of "christianity" is God's law a curse, supposedly?

Galatians 3:13. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law

What law?

If you want to talk about being 'cursed of' 'the law', then what law are you referring to, exactly?

godelian wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 5:49 am by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”

So, only those who are 'hung on poles' are cursed, right?

If no, then why not?

Age wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:45 am Galatians 3:13. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law
What law?

Mosaic Law.

Age wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:45 am If you want to talk about being 'cursed of' 'the law', then what law are you referring to, exactly?
by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”
So, only those who are 'hung on poles' are cursed, right?
If no, then why not?

Paul, the apostate of the law, the man who wrote "Galatians" in the Bible, was a heresiarch.

In Acts, the narrative is that Paul was warned by James, brother of Christ and leader of the congregation of the poor, and the elders, that he was gaining a reputation for being against the Law. Paul had to undergo ritual purification to be cleansed from his vile heresies. Still, Paul was seized and dragged out of the temple by an angry mob. Nobody believed that Paul was clean now, because the crowd shouted: 'Away with such a fellow from the earth! For he should not be allowed to live.' Forty Jews "bound themselves by an oath neither to eat nor drink until they had killed Paul", but Paul managed to escape from Jerusalem.

Paul is the one who wrote about Christ, “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”
Paul was a hated figure.

godelian wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 9:18 am

Age wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:45 am Galatians 3:13. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law
What law?

Mosaic Law.

So, what is your own interpretation of the so-called "mosaic law", and of the words "christ redeemed us from the curse of mosaic law", exactly?

godelian wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 9:18 am

Age wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:45 am If you want to talk about being 'cursed of' 'the law', then what law are you referring to, exactly?
by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”
So, only those who are 'hung on poles' are cursed, right?
If no, then why not?

Paul, the apostate of the law, the man who wrote "Galatians" in the Bible, was a heresiarch.

What, exactly, was, supposedly, abandoned?

godelian wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 9:18 am In Acts, the narrative is that Paul was warned by James, brother of Christ and leader of the congregation of the poor, and the elders, that he was gaining a reputation for being against the Law.

Well if some human being called "paul" renounced or abandoned some so-called "mosaic law", then would it not be 'obvious', to others, that "paul" was against 'that law'.

Why would any one only get a 'reputation' of being against some thing if one was already 'apostate' of 'that thing'?

godelian wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 9:18 am Paul had to undergo ritual purification to be cleansed from his vile heresies.

But, it is all of you adult human beings who have been 'indoctrinated' to believe [ln] things, which might not even be True, who need to be 'cleansed', or 'brain washed/cleansed'. But, even then you adult human beings have been fooled and deceived to believe that 'brain washing' is a term to be used in a 'negative sense'.

And that adult human beings added the word 'vile' in relation to 'heresies' is just another example of indoctrination and False belief/s at play, and at work, here.

It is all adult human beings who need 'ritual purification/s' and to be, literally, 'brain washed', and thus 'cleansed'. Not just the ones who believe "one side" or another, but all of you "believers" and "disbelievers", of things.

godelian wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 9:18 am Still, Paul was seized and dragged out of the temple by an angry mob.

Well this just what happens, all too frequently, to 'those' who just try to speak and share 'the Truth'.

godelian wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 9:18 am Nobody believed that Paul was clean now, because the crowd shouted: 'Away with such a fellow from the earth! For he should not be allowed to live.' Forty Jews "bound themselves by an oath neither to eat nor drink until they had killed Paul", but Paul managed to escape from Jerusalem.

Okay, but so what?

Is there some sort of 'message' that you are trying to 'share' and/or 'get across' here?

godelian wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 9:18 am Paul is the one who wrote about Christ, “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”

But what does the saying and writing, 'Cursed is everyone who is hungry on a pole', actually mean, or is referring to, exactly?

godelian wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 9:18 am Paul was a hated figure.

A lot of 'us' are 'hated'. (One just has to 'look at' 'the way' you posters here speak to, and about, each other here.)

But, again, so what?

Age wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 9:50 am A lot of 'us' are 'hated'. One just has to 'look at' 'the way' you posters here speak to, and about, each other here.
But, again, so what?

I generally avoid doing that, i.e. shit talking other posters. That is, at least, my intention. I want to talk about ideas and not about other posters.

godelian wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 10:22 am

Age wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 9:50 am A lot of 'us' are 'hated'. One just has to 'look at' 'the way' you posters here speak to, and about, each other here.
But, again, so what?

I generally avoid doing that, i.e. shit talking other posters.

That 'most' will find great, and refreshing.

godelian wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 10:22 am That is, at least, my intention. I want to talk about ideas and not about other posters.

Perfect.

Now, in regards to your idea that "islam" is, supposedly, "judaism" for the so-called "non jews" I am having trouble to comprehend and understand here.

To me, the word "islam" just references 'peace', and a "muslim" is just a ' follower of "islam"/'peace' '. While what the word "judaism" means or references to I have never actually thought about nor even considered at all before.

So, what does the word "judaism" mean or refers to, to you, exactly?

Age wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 10:41 am To me, the word "islam" just references 'peace', and a "muslim" is just a ' follower of "islam"/'peace' '. While what the word "judaism" means or references to I have never actually thought about nor even considered at all before.

So, what does the word "judaism" mean or refers to, to you, exactly?

Judaism is (1) the belief that there is just one God and that (2) God gave us through Moses Mosaic law.

Islam is (1) the belief that there is just one God and that (2) God gave us through Muhammad Islamic law.

Mosaic and Islamic law are largely the same but not 100% identical.

Islam means "submission" or in modern English "compliance" with God's law.

Jews do that by keeping Mosaic law and Muslims by keeping Islamic law.

Concerning peace, there is the belief that keeping God's law brings peace, in the sense that justice will minimize societal conflict. That is merely an ideal, however. Human nature is not necessarily peaceful.

godelian wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 11:14 am

Age wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 10:41 am To me, the word "islam" just references 'peace', and a "muslim" is just a ' follower of "islam"/'peace' '. While what the word "judaism" means or references to I have never actually thought about nor even considered at all before.

So, what does the word "judaism" mean or refers to, to you, exactly?

Judaism is (1) the belief that there is just one God and that (2) God gave us through Moses Mosaic law.

Islam is (1) the belief that there is just one God and that (2) God gave us through Muhammad Islamic law.

What do the words, 'God gave us through ...', actually mean, and/or refer to, to you, exactly?

godelian wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 11:14 am Mosaic and Islamic law are largely the same but not 100% identical.

Islam means "submission" or in modern English "compliance" with God's law.

Jews do that by keeping Mosaic law and Muslims by keeping Islamic law.

But, this is just absolutely contradictory.

godelian wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 11:14 am Concerning peace, there is the belief that keeping God's law brings peace, in the sense that justice will minimize societal conflict. That is merely an ideal, however. Human nature is not necessarily peaceful.

Either you know, with certainty, what human nature or not. Saying something like, 'Human nature is not necessarily, absolutely, 'any thing' is, really, not saying any thing at all.

Also, human nature is, actually, peaceful. And, this is irrefutable and without doubt.

Now, if you would like to have a Truly open and honest discussion about this, as well, then I am more than willing, and wanting, to.

godelian wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 3:48 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 9:02 am How does ISLAM portray itself to be of an Abrahamic origin when Muhammed clearly is contrary to pretty much every commandment that Moses received @ Mt SIN_AI and contrary to the teachings of Christ?

Islam is Abrahamic because large fragments of its law are bi-interpretable with Mosaic law.

Muhammad had to get his ideas from somewhere in attempt to portray himself as a 'prophet'.

godelian wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 3:48 amIn what sense did Moses and Muhammad hold contrary views?

Ah, rape and slaughtering Jews and basically anyone that doesn't believe him to be a prophet

godelian wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 3:48 amThat is not the reason why Jews do not accept Muhammad as their prophet. The reason is because Muhammad was not a Jew. I am myself not a Jew. So, I am not going to reject a prophet just because he isn't a Jew.

Jews wouldn't accept anyone including Jesus the Christ.

godelian wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 3:48 amConcerning Christ, unlike Moses and Muhammad, he was not the leader of his society, and therefore never had to fight any wars. Christ was under Roman control. He wasn't a sovereign leader. Therefore, you cannot compare him to Moses or Muhammad.

Funny thing is, I have clear knowledge of God's existence, no longer mere belief and this must be courtesy of original faith in Christ. As the man stated to know God is through me. God\sage have insisted (to me) that Christ DID as portrayed in the NT die upon crucifix and resurrect.
From what I have witnessed since 1997 of the power this God has over all reality - nothing is impossible.

So I don't really care too much about scripture - I get my knowledge now DIRECT from the source. In fact Christ has had a couple of interactions with me from the aether over the past month. He's quite lovely actually...and wow, heaven is awesome - it's a 'mode' not a place.

Have you had any DIVINE interaction, thus leaving you with no doubt that God exists?

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2024 4:26 am Muhammad had to get his ideas from somewhere in attempt to portray himself as a 'prophet'.

To me, it is obvious that he was a prophet.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2024 4:26 am Ah, rape and slaughtering Jews and basically anyone that doesn't believe him to be a prophet

He fought with some Jews. They lost. It just shows that he was better than them at the game in which they chose to compete.
Concerning rape, the early Muslims never raped anybody. They confiscated females from the losing adversary, but that was perfectly conform with the laws of war.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2024 4:26 am Have you had any DIVINE interaction, thus leaving you with no doubt that God exists?

I don't know what counts as divine interaction. So, that's difficult to say.

godelian wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2024 4:37 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2024 4:26 am Muhammad had to get his ideas from somewhere in attempt to portray himself as a 'prophet'.

To me, it is obvious that he was a prophet.

What makes Muhammed an obvious prophet of divine inspiration?

godelian wrote:

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2024 4:26 am Ah, rape and slaughtering Jews and basically anyone that doesn't believe him to be a prophet

He fought with some Jews. They lost. It just shows that he was better than them at the game in which they chose to compete.
Concerning rape, the early Muslims never raped anybody. They confiscated females from the losing adversary, but that was perfectly conform with the laws of war.

You cannot possibly know that early Muslims never raped anybody.

I find it astounding that you think a divine being (God) would allow enslavement and rape of captured enemy females. Surely it makes more sense that such instructions are the machinations of a warlord that wants more children to be born for his warrior legacy?

godelian wrote:

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2024 4:26 am Have you had any DIVINE interaction, thus leaving you with no doubt that God exists?

I don't know what counts as divine interaction. So, that's difficult to say.

Have you ever witnessed a 'miracle' - one doesn't count - I'm talking shed loads of them. Every been communicated to from the aether?