Philosophy Now Forum

Some people seem to think that the materialist theory of consciousness is disenchanting, but the reality is actually ironically mystical and awe-inspiring.

The materialist position is that the brain generates consciousness. A whole, intricate network of neuronal activity all giving rise to the wonder that is consciousness.

It's amazing, actually. Non-conscious matter giving rise to subjective experience. It's awe-inspiring; dare I say even mystical.

Any one else feel the same on this matter?

I don't know if I would use the word "mystical", but I actually do feel somewhat the same as you about it. "mystical" just has some connotations I'm not sure apply.

once again, if the brain didn't create consciousness, lobotomies wouldn't work...

-Imp

Eudaimonia23 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 6:58 pm Any one else feel the same on this matter?

I would say 'wondrous' or 'metaphysical'. But sure.
I would add that matter, even unconscious matter, is a rather mysterious category in science. It has changed remarkably over time and now includes things that have no mass, invisible fields, things that may not quite be in one place but statistically distributed, some does not emit, reflect or absorb light, even if it is massive - some matter is or has a repulsive force - unlike other matter that contributes to gravity. So, stuff that is far away in categories of traits from rocks and chairs were understood to be and even more ephemeral (than those) matter like air. But also, there is pattern, where more 'things' are called matter despite not having characteristics or having characteristics that prior conceptions or matter entailed.

So, it's not a fixed set with fixed characteristics.

Who knows what kinds of 'things' with what traits or lacks thereof future 'things' will be classed as matter?

Regardless...what ever is going on, if someone could explain it to me, regardless of whether that explanation is what would be called secular or religious, I am as sure as I can be that I would be stunned, in awe, mystified....

Eudaimonia23 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 6:58 pm Some people seem to think that the materialist theory of consciousness is disenchanting, but the reality is actually ironically mystical and awe-inspiring.

The materialist position is that the brain generates consciousness. A whole, intricate network of neuronal activity all giving rise to the wonder that is consciousness.

It's amazing, actually. Non-conscious matter giving rise to subjective experience. It's awe-inspiring; dare I say even mystical.

Any one else feel the same on this matter?

Well it's by definition a leap of magic. We define A as conscious and B as not concious, and define them as irreconcilable, and then we reconcile them anyway using magic (because it's impossible to reconcile them).

The eliminative materialists go one step further, they do the above process first, and then declare consciousness to be an illusion, even though that's like the one thing that can't be declared to be an illusion. So they kinda used magic twice.

Impenitent wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 7:53 pm once again, if the brain didn't create consciousness, lobotomies wouldn't work...

-Imp

They damage the hardware so the software can't function properly. It doesn't prove anything.

Impenitent wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 7:53 pm once again, if the brain didn't create consciousness, lobotomies wouldn't work...

-Imp

Yes, there's no radio station where someone is getting interviewed, for example, because I smashed my radio and I can't hear it anymore.

Eudaimonia23 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 6:58 pm Some people seem to think that the materialist theory of consciousness is disenchanting, but the reality is actually ironically mystical and awe-inspiring.

The materialist position is that the brain generates consciousness. A whole, intricate network of neuronal activity all giving rise to the wonder that is consciousness.

It's amazing, actually. Non-conscious matter giving rise to subjective experience. It's awe-inspiring; dare I say even mystical.

Any one else feel the same on this matter?

I agree, it’s goosebumpingly mystical.
Non-conscious matter arising as a conscious subjective experience, this invisible visible, this self evident noumenal phenomenonal imageless image, this awe inspiring image of the imageless.

Isn't it more awe-inspiring to think that 'consciousness' might be fundamental and the brain is only the vessel that it uses to access our 'reality'?
Or that what we think of as 'reality' is simply a creation of 'consciousness'?

accelafine wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:32 pm Isn't it more awe-inspiring to think that 'consciousness' might be fundamental and the brain is only the vessel that it uses to access our 'reality'?
Or that what we think of as 'reality' is simply a creation of 'consciousness'?

This thread isn't about what might be more or less. I'm sure it's more awe inspiring to imagine Donald Trump and Jesus riding a velociraptor with ar15s, but this thread ain't about that.

Eudaimonia23 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 6:58 pm It's amazing, actually. Non-conscious matter giving rise to subjective experience. It's awe-inspiring; dare I say even mystical.

So, what makes you consider the word 'mystical': inspiring a sense of spiritual mystery, awe, and fascination or relating to mystics or religious mysticism.

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 3:33 pm

accelafine wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:32 pm Isn't it more awe-inspiring to think that 'consciousness' might be fundamental and the brain is only the vessel that it uses to access our 'reality'?
Or that what we think of as 'reality' is simply a creation of 'consciousness'?

This thread isn't about what might be more or less. I'm sure it's more awe inspiring to imagine Donald Trump and Jesus riding a velociraptor with ar15s, but this thread ain't about that.

Please mansplain to me what the thread is about then because clearly as a mere woman I'm not capable of working that out for myself. I thought the thread was about 'consciousness', hence the title. I will be waiting with baited breath to be enlightened by you, oh mighty one.

This site is jam-packed with wanky, up-themselves male wokists who are as dense as a black hole and nastier than a stereotypical American movie portrayal of teenage females.


''I don't know if I would use the word "mystical", but I actually do feel somewhat the same as you about it. "mystical" just has some connotations I'm not sure apply.''

Wow. This is profound. A gem of deep thought. No wonder we women need the help of men (who are ALL intellectual giants) to get us through.

PS, I'm happy to have men explain things to me if they know what they are talking about (because I like to learn) and aren't being condescending arseholes about it.

accelafine wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 6:58 pmPlease mansplain to me what the thread is about then because clearly as a mere woman I'm not capable of working that out for myself. I thought the thread was about 'consciousness', hence the title. I will be waiting with baited breath to be enlightened by you, oh mighty one.

Read the whole title. It includes more than just 'consciousness', doesn't it?

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 7:32 pm

accelafine wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 6:58 pmPlease mansplain to me what the thread is about then because clearly as a mere woman I'm not capable of working that out for myself. I thought the thread was about 'consciousness', hence the title. I will be waiting with baited breath to be enlightened by you, oh mighty one.

Read the whole title. It includes more than just 'consciousness', doesn't it?

So what? I need your permission to disagree, or give another perspective? What if a thread title was 'Trump will win the next electiion'? Or 'Trump was the greatest American president ever'? So no one would be 'allowed' to make any comments that disagreed with those?
Get lost you little creep