Philosophy Now Forum

in thinking about it.... what is the point of education today?
to train people to work, to get jobs... education is job
training today...... and we, in being educated, get facts,
the sun is 93 million miles from us... In America we have
a president, a congress and a judicial system......
in our educational system we learn facts by which we
can apply to our primary goal, which is a job, a career.....
In America anyway, the goal of existence is to get a job,
to become someone... which is job related....

but what if, someone wanted to know what it right and wrong,
or what does it mean to be moral? now what?
Because America is all about the job, a career,
the most important aspect of morality is property rights.....
and this dovetails nicely into our primary needs of the legal system..
which is to protect property at all costs... the primary task
of the police in, America, is to protect private property.....

but what of the other, equally important task of being educated,
that of knowing what is right and wrong, good and evil?
who teaches that? and on that basis, conservatives want
to bring the ten commandments into schools, to bring morals
back into schools....

and the problem with that is the outside world.... Kids aren't stupid....
they can see the ongoing, daily hypocrisy of the world today....
of the GOP/MAGA part claiming to be the party of law and order,
and yet, still supporting IQ45, a convicted felon..... of the judicial system
making a mockery of justice every single day.... for justice delayed
is justice denied... and what is justice? but equality... to be equal before
the law and we see that concept being denied every single day......

let us take our actions as educational precepts, we act as if we
are using our own actions as an educational tool.... by taking actions,
we are teaching morals and ethics.... and what does the actions of
the justice system teaching us? that to avoid justice is a simple case
of being a wealthy, old white guy...... that the actions of the GOP/MAGA
party is teaching that justice is very much about what it see's.....
what does right and wrong mean in the face of this ''education"
this teaching? that one can avoid justice by simply being a wealthy person....

is that the education that we want our children to see?
is that the education we should be teaching in our schools?
do we want that to be our legacy?.... that wealth can determine
what is right and wrong? good and evil?

and that dives nicely into the idea that education is about a job,
a career.... because the myth of America is that if one works hard,
one will get enough money to be able to avoid justice... wealth means
to avoid justice.... So, work hard, and that is one reward for being
wealthy.... justice can be bought, like anything else in our market
system, of capitalism.....

So, how does this ''education'' teach us about right or wrong, good and
evil? that America teaches, educates based on getting a job, where
if one accumulates enough wealth, you can avoid justice and
be free of such messy ideas like justice and good and evil...

but what about the rest of us? what does justice mean for us
if we lack money enough to buy justice?

Kropotkin

when hearing about the ills of America, the right always portrays
liberal ideas, WOKE or CRT, as the problem.... but they are hardly
the problem..... they are just ideas..... no, the problem is simple,
the vast discrepancy between our words and our actions......our
words say one thing and our actions say another......
the RIGHT argues that we should be more morals/ethical,
and yet they support a 34-count felon for president.....

the words must match the actions..... our words, that
justice means something in America fails given the reality
of what we see every day on the news.... that a poor black
man is jailed for months because he lacks bail money.....
and the man who tried to overthrow the American system
is allowed to delay, delay, delay and then just for fun, delay some
more his trial.....now one may ask, which trial? and that is my point.....

For justice to be justice, must be applied to everyone equally or it
isn't justice.... it is something else......and that failed application
of justice is also part of education..... for in education we learn
facts that we can use in our future...... fun fact... if you have
enough wealth, you too can avoid justice....

take our actions as another tool for education..... instead of math
or history, let us think of our own actions as another means of
educating people..... actions educate just as surely as math or
history does....

If you want a better America, then begin with matching our words with
our actions..... let that begin our education..... that our words
and actions must be, one and the same.....

Kropotkin

so, let us try this....
if we were to base an ethical, moral on your words, on your
actions, how would that work out?

Are your words, matching with your actions?

when I was much younger, there was a movie and the famous line
out of that movie was this: ''Greed is good"....

Now let us imagine a society where these words were put into
action as a moral precept.....
where everyone acted, from a moral standpoint, with the idea
that '''Greed is good"....

Society would collapse within 3 to 5 years, I would guess....
so, could we match your words with your actions and use
them as a moral standard for a society/state?
Most of us, if we were honest, would say no.... my words,
don't match my actions... I am dishonest in one, the other or both....
if we were honest....

try to imagine a moral state/society using your morals, your words?
Now try to imagine creating a society/state with IQ45 words and actions?
create a moral society/state using his words, and his actions?

I believe that society/state would collapse within a year......

Now remove Christian ideals from your head.... on what moral
standard would you reimagine the society/state existing on?
Why or why not use that standard on our current society/state?

think about it....

Kropotkin

the idea today in education is job training, training for a career....
but what in that particular education is about being moral or ethical?
the point of job training, especially in today's America, is that
the goal, the entire point of this job training is to gain one
of the trinkets of existence..... this being wealth.... that is an a
avowed goal of capitalism... to create wealth..... but on that
principle, where is ethical or moral values?

to gain wealth is to gain wealth regardless, if it is moral or not.....
morality/ethics in fact, stand in the way of gaining wealth....
and if we can gain wealth by simply ignoring ethics/morals,
so much the better.... and we see this every single day in
the news.... Enron was an entire study of the pursuit of wealth
before ethics/morals..... and which institution is actually
pursuing ethics/morals in America today?

The religious in America, the vast majority of them have publicly
stated their preference for IQ45.... a convicted felon, an admitted
adulterer and probable rapist, someone who tried to overthrow the
federal government.... a man whose highest value is the pursuit of
money..... I am not sure how the religious right can still hold out
for IQ45.... but in doing so, they clearly deny their own religious
beliefs... you can't support IQ45 and still hold out that one is
a Christian..... and the real hypocrisy is in their attempt to
put the ten commandments into the schools.... the same
ten commandments they have clearly rejected in supporting
IQ45.... how can they mentally hold to two distinct and opposite
beliefs? One to support a criminal and then also claim to be a Christian?

for me anyway, to be a Christian is not a pick and choose kind of thing....
pick which values you do or do not support... it is an all or nothing thing....
either you are a Christian, and you must then support what is in the bible,
with all your might... or you reject the bible and thus no longer holding
to Christian values....

For I hold to the old way of doing things..... In which one in picking
a values or a belief system, holds to that belief system as a ''way of life''
every single decision is with your belief system in mind......do I take
this job? is this job something that I can do as a Christian? if not,
you reject that job.....

if you are a Christian, then Christian values must be the values that
determine one's life.... all decisions are made with Christian values
in mind, or said another way.... if I accept this, would Jesus have
approved of it? Is this in line with values that Jesus proposed?
If the answer is no, then the Christian must reject that idea or values....
Every single decision is made with the idea that ''What would Jesus do?"

and so, we return to the original statement which is about education....
in which we are educated to have a job or a career, but where is
the moral, ethical values that goes with having a job or a career?
one might say, within the Church.... but the church itself is ethically
challenged...... or have you not heard of the sexual abuse problem in
American Churches?

So, who exactly in America today, is actually engaged in thinking about
ethical/moral problems? No one that I can tell...... hence the problem
in America today with knowing or understanding what is moral or
what is ethical?

Kropotkin

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2024 5:08 pm
So, who exactly in America today, is actually engaged in thinking about
ethical/moral problems?

Kropotkin

Peter Kropotkin, that's who.

I propose sending you to a Reeducation Camp where you will learn to format your fucking posts properly.

You’ll share a bunk with Sculptor who requires a few years of internment in the Remedial Spelling Ward ….