Philosophy Now Forum

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it fall, does the tree make a sound?

My answer is: "No"

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 12:32 pm If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it fall, does the tree make a sound?

My answer is: "No"

My budgie said it was quite loud.

Disambiguate what the word "sound" means and the answer becomes clear. It's only a riddle because "sound" can mean multiple things at once

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 2:05 pm Disambiguate what the word "sound" means and the answer becomes clear. It's only a riddle because "sound" can mean multiple things at once

Well said. When I use the word sound, I use it to refer to the experience I perceive when air molecules hit my ear drum in such a way as air molecules do when a tree falls in the forest. I'm assuming that what my ear drums send to my brain and what the brain experiences from it are not part of or identical with the air molecules themselves. And therefore if I am not present, then no such "experience" exists or is happening within range of the air molecules that tree makes.

Of course, it may ultimately be an assumption on my part, I'll acknowledge that.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 2:15 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 2:05 pm Disambiguate what the word "sound" means and the answer becomes clear. It's only a riddle because "sound" can mean multiple things at once

Well said. When I use the word sound, I use it to refer to the experience

If sound means the experience, and there's no one around to have the experience, then the experience isn't happening. Easy one.

If sound instead means the waves of air pressure, then the answer would be different.

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 2:24 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 2:15 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 2:05 pm Disambiguate what the word "sound" means and the answer becomes clear. It's only a riddle because "sound" can mean multiple things at once

Well said. When I use the word sound, I use it to refer to the experience

If sound means the experience, and there's no one around to have the experience, then the experience isn't happening. Easy one.

If sound instead means the waves of air pressure, then the answer would be different.

That's the way I see it as well.

If you were to put a video and sound recording device in the forest when no one was around and a tree did fall close enough to the recording device, then would you be able to better answer your question here, or at least answer it more efficiently or more effectively?

if you fell in the forest, would you make a sound?

the tree was screaming at the squirrels upon which he landed...

that was the last thing the squirrels heard...

-Imp

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 12:32 pm

Re: "Feel free to agree or disagree"

If you feel free, are you really free?

Age wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 2:51 pm If you were to put a video and sound recording device in the forest when no one was around and a tree did fall close enough to the recording device, then would you be able to better answer your question here, or at least answer it more efficiently or more effectively?

That's an interesting question. If no one was around to hear the recording, would that still be "sound" that the recording is making? And do other living beings also translate particles colliding with each other as "sound" in the same way I do? So for example if an insect were there when the tree fell, would the tree falling make a sound as perceived by the insect?

Age wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 2:51 pm If you were to put a video and sound recording device in the forest when no one was around and a tree did fall close enough to the recording device, then would you be able to better answer your question here, or at least answer it more efficiently or more effectively?

Would there still be sound if the absent human thought that the O on the power toggle switch meant "Off" rather than "On"?

Such human devices are merely extensions of the human senses, which are suspect in ways yet discovered, now that AI has a say.

In other words, what if the video and sound recording device were not functioning? Would there still be sound?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 12:00 am

Age wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 2:51 pm If you were to put a video and sound recording device in the forest when no one was around and a tree did fall close enough to the recording device, then would you be able to better answer your question here, or at least answer it more efficiently or more effectively?

That's an interesting question. If no one was around to hear the recording, would that still be "sound" that the recording is making?

Would 'what' still be sound?

What is the first 'that' word referring to, exactly?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 12:00 am And do other living beings also translate particles colliding with each other as "sound" in the same way I do?

Does the ability of other beings 'to know' what you are talking about and referring to when you use the 'sound' word, answer your question here, sufficiently enough, for you?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 12:00 am So for example if an insect were there when the tree fell, would the tree falling make a sound as perceived by the insect?

If a tree falling makes a sound, as perceived as a tree falling sound by an insect, then yes the tree falling would make a sound, well to that insect anyway, and to all the other tree falling sound sensing beings who are close enough to sense 'that sound'.

Walker wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 12:16 am

Age wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 2:51 pm If you were to put a video and sound recording device in the forest when no one was around and a tree did fall close enough to the recording device, then would you be able to better answer your question here, or at least answer it more efficiently or more effectively?

Would there still be sound if the absent human thought that the O on the power toggle switch meant "Off" rather than "On"?

Would there still be a sound to who or what, exactly?

Walker wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 12:16 am Such human devices are merely extensions of the human senses, which are suspect in ways yet discovered, now that AI has a say.

Who cares?

It could be said and argued that human senses, themselves, might be suspect anyway, right?

Walker wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 12:16 am In other words, what if the video and sound recording device were not functioning?

Then the video and sound recording device were just not working.

Walker wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 12:16 am Would there still be sound?

Is it possible to find, or make, a video and sound recording device that does work?

If yes, then just use that one.

But, if no, then are you sure?

Age wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 5:33 pm If a tree falling makes a sound, as perceived as a tree falling sound by an insect, then yes the tree falling would make a sound, well to that insect anyway, and to all the other tree falling sound sensing beings who are close enough to sense 'that sound'.

Very true.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 11:35 pm If you feel free, are you really free?

If you feel free, then why would you want to know if you are "really" free or not?