Philosophy Now Forum

So you're a parent, and you realize that you have no idea how to be a good parent.

You know how to be an abusive, soul-crushing parent, and that's it.

You'd like to be a good parent, but what's that?

So, I would like to show a dichotomy.

A kind parent shows esteem in action and words; but a cruel parent does not.

A kind parent controls toddlers to keep them out of danger; but a cruel parent never relinquishes control over the child.

And the list goes on. I need help with the list, but I think you get the gist.

So the technique is to have the list of kind behaviors and imagine having them for yourself, in your own childhood.
Second, the technique is to implement those behaviors with your own children.

Systematic wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 5:53 am So you're a parent, and you realize that you have no idea how to be a good parent.

You know how to be an abusive, soul-crushing parent, and that's it.

You'd like to be a good parent, but what's that?

So, I would like to show a dichotomy.

A kind parent shows esteem in action and words; but a cruel parent does not.

A kind parent controls toddlers to keep them out of danger; but a cruel parent never relinquishes control over the child.

And the list goes on. I need help with the list, but I think you get the gist.

So the technique is to have the list of kind behaviors and imagine having them for yourself, in your own childhood.
Second, the technique is to implement those behaviors with your own children.

There's way more to good parenting than "kindness". In fact what keeps many modern "OK" parents from being "great", is trying to be their children's buddy instead of their parent. Kids need boundaries and discipline, even when they prefer freedom and a world without limits.

LuckyR wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 11:56 pm There's way more to good parenting than "kindness". In fact what keeps many modern "OK" parents from being "great", is trying to be their children's buddy instead of their parent. Kids need boundaries and discipline, even when they prefer freedom and a world without limits.

Parents cannot be their kids' buddies - you are right - but we can be their friends. I think a lot of people miss this important distinction.

Systematic wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 5:53 am So you're a parent, and you realize that you have no idea how to be a good parent.

You know how to be an abusive, soul-crushing parent, and that's it.

You'd like to be a good parent, but what's that?

So, I would like to show a dichotomy.

A kind parent shows esteem in action and words; but a cruel parent does not.

Will you present an example of when one is showing 'esteem', in action and words?

Systematic wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 5:53 am A kind parent controls toddlers to keep them out of danger; but a cruel parent never relinquishes control over the child.

This seems like it could be somewhat contradictory to me. I do not know absolutely any parent on the whole earth who has not relinquished control over a child at some point. So, are you meaning that there are no so-called 'cruel parents'.

Also, to me, a parent who controls toddlers always, to keep them out of danger, you might call a 'kind parent' but a parent who never allows a toddler to experience some forms of danger, themselves, so that they can learn how to learn for, and by, themselves is not a 'kind parent', really. To me this kind of parent is just a 'controlling parent', only.

Systematic wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 5:53 am And the list goes on. I need help with the list, but I think you get the gist.

But, to me, you have not even started a list. And, why do you presume that every one who has read this 'gets the gist'? What even is 'the gist' here, by the way?

That you have a personal 'cruel' and 'kind' list of people and 'judge' human beings who have had children as being on one or the other of that list' is 'a gist' that 'I' have so far gotten from 'you', here. But, surely you were referring to something else, right?

Systematic wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 5:53 am So the technique is to have the list of kind behaviors and imagine having them for yourself, in your own childhood.

As long as 'the technique' is in relation to preventing and stopping the cycle of all child abuse, which every one of you adult human beings have lived with, then I agree wholeheartedly in regards to, 'imagining (in) your own childhood', absolutely, however, I would just add that instead of making a list of so-called 'kind behaviors', and then imagining having them for "yourself", in your own childhood, you first remember your own childhood and imagine 'the behaviors' that you would have liked or preferred instead, and then make up a 'list of behaviors', which you would like to 'pass on to your children's, so that they would 'behave' in 'that way' to 'children', as though you were one of those children'.

Again, if absolutely any one would like to discuss any of this in any way, much deeper, and/or further with much further or deeper elaboration,.then I am more than willing, wanting, and ready to.

Systematic wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 5:53 am Second, the technique is to implement those behaviors with your own children.

Why did you talk about a 'good parent', and then say that you would like to show a dichotomy, but you never actually did? Through a discussion being a 'kind parent' could very well be different from being a 'good parent', for example.

Also, until you present a list of so-called 'kind behaviors' 'we' really will not be able to know if your own personal 'kind list' is 'good' for children, and thus ultimately, humanity, itself, or not.

See, what is seen as being 'kind', by some or even most people, is not necessarily 'good' at all. For example, not telling the Truth to someone, so as to so-call 'not hurt their feelings' can be classed as 'being kind', by some or even most, but may well end up not actually 'being good' at all.

Coming to an agreement and an acceptance, by all, on a list of, What is Right, in Life, and of, What is Wrong, in Life, I found is far BETTER than presenting one's own personal list of 'kind' or 'cruel'. Just like 'abuse and love', 'kind and cruel' can have very individual perspectives to them, from where one person can love, want, and seek out 'a behavior' while another could hate or find 'that behavior' disgusting or horrific.

All of these things, and much more, need to be discussed, agreed upon, and accepted, first, to find out what is actually good and Right, for every one.

Great topic. Thanks for introducing it, here.

LuckyR wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 11:56 pm

Systematic wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 5:53 am So you're a parent, and you realize that you have no idea how to be a good parent.

You know how to be an abusive, soul-crushing parent, and that's it.

You'd like to be a good parent, but what's that?

So, I would like to show a dichotomy.

A kind parent shows esteem in action and words; but a cruel parent does not.

A kind parent controls toddlers to keep them out of danger; but a cruel parent never relinquishes control over the child.

And the list goes on. I need help with the list, but I think you get the gist.

So the technique is to have the list of kind behaviors and imagine having them for yourself, in your own childhood.
Second, the technique is to implement those behaviors with your own children.

There's way more to good parenting than "kindness". In fact what keeps many modern "OK" parents from being "great", is trying to be their children's buddy instead of their parent. Kids need boundaries and discipline, even when they prefer freedom and a world without limits.

Children NEVER EVER need 'discipline'. Adult human beings, however, NEED 'self-discipline' to, finally, learn how to teach children, 'What is, actually, Right, in Life'.

Children, obviously, prefer 'freedom' because, autonomous, 'freedom' is part of what Life, and living, is really about.

And, 'a world' without limits is really 'what is', although and obviously you human beings create a conceptually, only, 'limited and limiting world'.

Kaylla wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:46 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 11:56 pm There's way more to good parenting than "kindness". In fact what keeps many modern "OK" parents from being "great", is trying to be their children's buddy instead of their parent. Kids need boundaries and discipline, even when they prefer freedom and a world without limits.

Parents cannot be their kids' buddies - you are right - but we can be their friends. I think a lot of people miss this important distinction.

What is the actual distinction between 'a buddy' and 'a friend', exactly?

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀..Cycle of Abuse?..the wheels on my bike are Catherine Wheels..
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

Age wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 12:42 am

LuckyR wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 11:56 pm

Systematic wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 5:53 am So you're a parent, and you realize that you have no idea how to be a good parent.

You know how to be an abusive, soul-crushing parent, and that's it.

You'd like to be a good parent, but what's that?

So, I would like to show a dichotomy.

A kind parent shows esteem in action and words; but a cruel parent does not.

A kind parent controls toddlers to keep them out of danger; but a cruel parent never relinquishes control over the child.

And the list goes on. I need help with the list, but I think you get the gist.

So the technique is to have the list of kind behaviors and imagine having them for yourself, in your own childhood.
Second, the technique is to implement those behaviors with your own children.

There's way more to good parenting than "kindness". In fact what keeps many modern "OK" parents from being "great", is trying to be their children's buddy instead of their parent. Kids need boundaries and discipline, even when they prefer freedom and a world without limits.

Children NEVER EVER need 'discipline'. Adult human beings, however, NEED 'self-discipline' to, finally, learn how to teach children, 'What is, actually, Right, in Life'.

Children, obviously, prefer 'freedom' because, autonomous, 'freedom' is part of what Life, and living, is really about.

And, 'a world' without limits is really 'what is', although and obviously you human beings create a conceptually, only, 'limited and limiting world'.

This human being sounds like someone without children. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

I was always impressed with how my sister raised her children.

She was like their friend and never needed to hit them (contrary to the way our Dad brought us up, I got wacked and thrown around many times) ...since if they did something wrong she'd simply explain to them why they've made her upset and I'd see them look at her as if they let their best friend down!

I was amazed - they were great kids, so well behaved.

A child brought up well you can reason with and should never need to resort to hitting. A dog on the other hand one cannot reason with and my best mate Donnie when he was a pup got a wack on his arse whenever he decided to eat some sloppy poo he found! He soon wised up.

That's true. There is absolutely no point in hitting children. It's assault anyway. When a parent hits a child it's only to vent their own frustration and satisfy their anger. Children also need boundaries and crave to be given them, which is why the children of those 'passive' parents are so badly behaved. By 'passive' I mean those indifferent parents who don't hit their children but also never tell them not to do anything. They are completely oblivious, clueless twits. Theirs are the children who scream at the top of their lungs at the supermarket and destroy homes when they visit. They are the children everyone dreads coming to their house and the ones who ruin restaurant dinners and airline travel. Often, all it would take is a simple 'sshh' from the parent but the idiots won't do even that. I don't know what the f is wrong with them. The parental indifference drives the child nuts and those children will do anything to get their parents' attention.
I was always able to take my own children anywhere. Cafes. Restaurants. Other people's houses. They just knew how to behave. Children aren't idiots.

Adolescents are a different matter entirely. Those are monsters who need to be kept caged

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:10 pm I was always impressed with how my sister raised her children.

She was like their friend and never needed to hit them (contrary to the way our Dad brought us up, I got wacked and thrown around many times) ...since if they did something wrong she'd simply explain to them why they've made her upset and I'd see them look at her as if they let their best friend down!

I was amazed - they were great kids, so well behaved.

A child brought up well you can reason with and should never need to resort to hitting. A dog on the other hand one cannot reason with and my best mate Donnie when he was a pup got a wack on his arse whenever he decided to eat some sloppy poo he found! He soon wised up.

Glad to hear it and I don't doubt your observation. But when folks criticize parents for being their child's friend, they mean like a contemporary, who commonly don't act like your red statement. That actually sounds like a (good) parent.

LuckyR wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:51 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:10 pm I was always impressed with how my sister raised her children.

She was like their friend and never needed to hit them (contrary to the way our Dad brought us up, I got wacked and thrown around many times) ...since if they did something wrong she'd simply explain to them why they've made her upset and I'd see them look at her as if they let their best friend down!

I was amazed - they were great kids, so well behaved.

A child brought up well you can reason with and should never need to resort to hitting. A dog on the other hand one cannot reason with and my best mate Donnie when he was a pup got a wack on his arse whenever he decided to eat some sloppy poo he found! He soon wised up.

Glad to hear it and I don't doubt your observation. But when folks criticize parents for being their child's friend, they mean like a contemporary, who commonly don't act like your red statement. That actually sounds like a (good) parent.

Sure. It always amazed me when friends or stuff on TV blokes would state that their Dad was their best friend.

I have far more horrible memories of my Dad than pleasant ones. My mother on the other hand I could not fault.

One of my earliest horrible memories was around the age of 6-7 being sat on the armrest of a lounge chair attempting to read from a book when dickhead dad was attempting to "assist" me in learning how to read. Every time I stumbled with what I was attempting to read he would wack me in anger on the leg - a couple of times he knocked me off of the armrest. Of course, none of that made me better at reading, it just distracted me from the task at hand wondering if I was going to be wacked again. ****.

accelafine wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:26 pm That's true. There is absolutely no point in hitting children. It's assault anyway. When a parent hits a child it's only to vent their own frustration and satisfy their anger. Children also need boundaries and crave to be given them,

This makes one wonder what this one is basing its ABSOLUTE BELIEF and claim here on, exactly?

If children KNOW there is 'a boundary' somewhere, and they crave to be 'informed of the boundary' or crave to be 'given the boundary', then this could just be the result of their parents/care givers have SOME DISTORTED BELIEF about children NEED boundaries, which those child are 'picking up' on, and which the parents/care givers have, OBVIOUSLY, not yet informed nor yet given those children

accelafine wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:26 pm which is why the children of those 'passive' parents are so badly behaved.

Wow, here 'we' can se another Truly CLOSED view, if this one here

accelafine wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:26 pm By 'passive' I mean those indifferent parents who don't hit their children but also never tell them not to do anything.

Is there a parent in the whole world has not yet told children that you can not do some thing?

If yes, and the child is old enough, then how 'you' know?

accelafine wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:26 pm They are completely oblivious, clueless twits.

Do 'they' even actually exist, well outside of this one's imagination only?

accelafine wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:26 pmTheirs are the children who scream at the top of their lungs at the supermarket and destroy homes when they visit.

Is that 'destroy homes' like hurricanes, cyclones, typhoons, or tornadoes can do, or in some other way?

accelafine wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:26 pm They are the children everyone dreads coming to their house and the ones who ruin restaurant dinners and airline travel.

Sounds like this one loves to live alone so that NO 'touches' absolutely ANY thing that this one has put in some particular place in some particular way.

accelafine wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:26 pm Often, all it would take is a simple 'sshh' from the parent but the idiots won't do even that. I don't know what the f is wrong with them.

This is ABSOLUTELY OBVIOUS

Just like this one is an ABSOLUTELY JUDGEMENTAL human being, who, ALSO, has ABSOLUTELY NO idea NOR clue as to WHY 'it' is, also, 'the way' that 'it' is.

accelafine wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:26 pmThe parental indifference drives the child nuts and those children will do anything to get their parents' attention.
I was always able to take my own children anywhere. Cafes. Restaurants. Other people's houses. They just knew how to behave. Children aren't idiots.

Children are also NOT '"egotistical brats" who love to 'brag about' how good and great they are, while continually wining and whinging about how bad and wrong others are

accelafine wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:26 pm Adolescents are a different matter entirely. Those are monsters who need to be kept caged

Just as I SAID.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:10 pm I was always impressed with how my sister raised her children.

She was like their friend and never needed to hit them (contrary to the way our Dad brought us up, I got wacked and thrown around many times) ...since if they did something wrong she'd simply explain to them why they've made her upset

If a parent is, still, 'trying to' BLAME a child for how the parent is 'feeling', then that parent is, still, very immature, and so obviously, still, has more 'to learn', in order to 'grow up' and mature properly, and Correctly

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:10 pm and I'd see them look at her as if they let their best friend down!

I was amazed - they were great kids, so well behaved.

A child brought up well you can reason with and should never need to resort to hitting. A dog on the other hand one cannot reason with and my best mate Donnie when he was a pup got a wack on his arse whenever he decided to eat some sloppy poo he found! He soon wised up.

Age wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 12:43 am What is the actual distinction between 'a buddy' and 'a friend', exactly?

I have friends who are teenagers. They can come to my house (normally with their parents knowing where they are), they can ask for my advice, help with homework, help with anything else that I can help with, or even just hang out.

I am their friend and I am also an adult - and they are not. So I will not drink alcohol with them, do stupid shit with them, keep what they are doing secret from their parents (without a good reason - sometimes there is a good reason), etc.

Hope this helps