Philosophy Now Forum

this may look like political thread but it isn't...

we have politicians, who claim only they can fix what is wrong with
the country in question.. IQ45 was elected in 2016 based on
this very claim... I am a successful business owner and thus
I have the knowledge/skills to fix America... He lied...
but that sort of claim is at the heart of this particular
thread...

the entire basis of the Nazi claim lies in their ability to ''keep the trains
running on time"... that is their claim to fame in terms of the ability
to rule...but I ask, is that enough? should we vote for someone
because of their ability keep things running? to keep the government
doing its job? is that the criteria we should use in our electing
politicians?

I work in a grocery store.. my manager is an idiot... but he was
chosen to run a store of about 80 people and on what grounds
did the company choose him? as far as I can tell, the store makes
a big enough profit, reason one and reason two, is that he follows
orders...and he is anal about following order.. anything done
differently than what corporate wants, is forbidden..
even if it is a better way or makes more money, he doesn't care...
it has to be done the corporate way.. no if, ands or buts...
if corporate want the self checkout person to stand in a certain
spot, that its, that person is to stand at that spot regardless of
whatever else is going... which is why I am always being yelled
at by the managers.. I stand where the situation dictates I stand,
not where corporate demands, thus the managers want me to stand..
and I have very strong logical reasoning for moving/standing
where I do... but that is irrelevant..... corporate wants this way
and so, this is where I am going to stand....

now this sort of business reasoning doesn't seem to have any sort
of logic or reasoning behind much of what a business does outside
of the bottom-line faith in making profits...that is the golden rule
of business.. making money, creating profits... everything else
is secondary, at best...the agenda dictates the course of action..

now think about our understanding of history.... we have heard time
and time again, that Abe Lincoln was one of, if not the single best
president in American history... but let us examine this in greater detail
and then connect it to my earlier points...

what made Lincoln a great president? was it by following the rules
slavishly like my corporation does? or like the way my manager does?
is that what made Lincoln great? did he create a 5 year plan and force
everyone to follow that 5 year plan? NO... think about his ''plan''
of action was during the Civil War? His entire goal/agenda was to win
the war and bring the country back together...
it is clear by his actions that he wasn't like my manager,
he wasn't anal about the actions he took... he did what he
thought best to accomplish his goal of winning the war
and uniting the country.... he didn't have a plan, agenda
or goal...outside of winning the war and uniting the country...
the goal was the same through his presidency, but the method
he used change depending on circumstances...
think about it.. he changed the commander leading his forces
several times.. if he had responded like my company, he would
have hired a general who towed the company line, not necessarily
won battles.. someone who was committed to winning the war,
by whatever means necessary... not following the company line,
and the company line in this case is following the ''West Point"
way.. to win battles how one was taught by ''West Point'' is the
''West Point" way... to win battles set by the precepts
and rules established by ''West Point''... and that is also
the corporate way.. to ''win'' battles by the corporate method,
of following the corporate way/method/rules....

now one could think of the corporate way as being one method
of keeping the trains running on time... but for me, the larger
question is this; to what end are we aiming for? is the goal simply
to keep the trains running on time/the rules the same regardless
of the circumstances?

and we come to another brick in the wall... the idea that we can plan
or organize ourselves into achieving our goals or agenda?

so, we return to the famous Soviet style 5 year plans...
why did they notoriously fail?
because they didn't take into account the one thing that they
should have taken into account and are unable to?

that the universe is random, full of chance, chaotic... we cannot
make plans and expect them to work out because those plans
are going to be acted upon by chance, randomness, chaos...
our 5-year plan to expand the company to 500 stores, can easily
fall apart because the plan doesn't take into account chance,
randomness of the universe, the chaos of the universe....
and here we come to the genius of Lincoln.. he didn't depend
on a 5 year plans to win the war....war is chaos and randomness,
you can't plan on that... you can't make rules based on the chaos
and chance/randomness of wars and battle... a battle could be lost
by a general not being able to sit in his horse and see the battle
unfold.. as happened to Napoleon in one of his battles...

so we return to one of our earlier themes of the narrative of
keeping the trains running on time.. and that person should
be president.... but keeping the trains running on time, is
a function of keeping the randomness and chaos of the universe
away from the train system... and you can't....

and this leads us to an interesting conclusion....that
we shouldn't be picking our leaders based on
their plans to keep the trains running...but on their ability to
navigate the chaos and randomness of the universe.. when the
chaos strikes and the train don't run... now what? we choose
the person who can best deal with the universe chaos and randomness..
thus, the anal boss I have would be a terrible choice to be president...
he functions best when the store/universe is smoothly running
according to plan... and we know that our universe/store isn't
that smooth at running....chaos, randomness and chance can derail
even the best laid plans... and my manager is unable to handle
or deal with a derailed plan...with the chaos and randomness of
the universe....

which says what? that those who believe in agenda's and ism's/ideologies
are not very good choices for running things....so to put some
meat on this bone.... IQ45 has an agenda, an ideological plan to
run the country..... and that is the path to failure...there has to be
some flexibility in our plans in order to deal with the coming, inevitable
randomness and chaos in the universe that interferes with all our plans...

the question is not how to work out a 5 year plan, but how to deal with
the randomness/the chaos that happens during that 5 year plan...
something will go wrong or random during that 5 year plan, the question
becomes can that leader deal with that randomness, that chaos?
IQ45 obviously cannot deal with chaos because he is an ideological
thinker and in doing so, is unable to deal with the chaos and randomness
of the universe....

(and what does an ideological thinker look like? someone who
rules by ideology, his prejudice and hatred of others is ideological,
and thus unable to deal with any sort of crisis or randomness in
the universe... how does hatred and anger solve problems like
the 2020 problem of Covid? or the widespread economic problems
of 2020 or the large scale mass protest that occurred during 2020?
those are random events that must be dwelt with by applying
the answers from life... in other words, we can't solve an
issue like Covid, with ideological answers like the prejudice
and hatred of the right wing, the conservative)

now given the above, many here will ask, doesn't that also
apply to the concept of ''WOKE" and the answer is no....
being ''WOKE"" isn't about an plan of action, it is a statement
of one's awareness... to be ''WOKE'' is to be aware of a situation
it doesn't imply a solution, just awareness of a problem, not
a solution...and that is all ''WOKE'' is.. awareness of a problem,
not an answer/solution to a problem... now that awareness
can lead one to possible solutions to a problem, but that isn't
what ''WOKE"" is.... ''WOKENESS'' isn't an agenda to be filled, but
an awareness... ''WOKE'' isn't a plan to action and that action must
be this, this, and this..... no, the plan of action, any action,
must be apart and separate from the awareness...

so, let us bring back this question of making the trains run on time...
does being ''WOKE"" solve this problem? nope... the connection
to being ''WOKE" and the trains running on time, comes from
the awareness that the trains running on time is a problem..
being ''WOKE'', aware to the problem of trains running on time...
the solution to keeping the trains running on time, can come
from many different and diverse sources.....

so, you have a large, or perhaps several large problems facing us...
the first step is to become aware of, to be ''WOKE'' to the problem....
what are the problems? and then and only then seek a solution
that can be applied to the problem at hand, not from ideological
thinking but practical thinking...

but Kropotkin, being ''WOKE" is ideological thinking...
no, no it isn't...it is simple becoming aware of something,
nothing more.. to solve any problem, one has to become aware
of the problem.. that is where a solution can be found...

so, how did Lincoln solve the question/problem of the Civil War?
he didn't solve it ideologically, he solved it practically... and that is
why he is a great president.... he looked to solutions to his problem
without an attachment to prior ism's or ideologies that might skewer
his solutions....

now all of this reflects something that gets overlooked if not
outright neglected....

the key to solving problems such as the Civil War and keeping the
trains running on time, come not from ism's or ideologies,
but come from as understanding that any/every plan ever made
will be disrupted by randomness and chaos.. and thus
solutions cannot stem from a steadfast belief in some ism
or ideology... we must free ourselves from this relance on
ism's to provide us with answers... you want to solve the question
of the trains, you have to discover why the trains don't run on time
and that why can't be ideologically driven.. the assumption that
the ''liberals'' or the left has caused the trains from running on time...
that is ideological thinking.. as I must get ready for work,
more on this same bat channel, this same bat time...

Kropotkin

ok, let us try this: name the ideas that have improved your life
from both the conservatives and from the liberals/left...

let us begin with democracy itself, democracy is a liberal idea.. because
the conservatives have hate for and still hate democracy...
they would rather have kings or dictators like wannabe dictator
IQ45.... after the revolutionary was between America and Britian
in 1782, and the U.S won, meaning democracy won, roughly
10% of Americans moved elsewhere.. conservatives moved to avoid
the state of democracy in America.. to Canada or back to the UK....

what about our modern-day ideas of overtime and paid vacations
and safety in the workplace, 5-day work week, paid work
health insurance... all of this courtesy of the left...

what about social security and welfare and Medicare?
again, creations of the left.. the right/conservatives
have been trying to kill social security and Medicare since
their inceptions...and we know how the right hates welfare,
unless its welfare for them or big business, then they love it....
again, the left...

now think hard.. think of plan or idea from the right that
benefited or improved your life? something that is tangible
and real? and can be put into action...

go ahead... I'll wait...

Kropotkin

I approach both the large, the state/society/civilization
and the small, the one, the individual, as being one and the same.....

the human condition requires, demands that we engage with one another,
we are not isolated, separated beings....human beings cannot, cannot
exists without a state/society/civilization.... we simple cannot...
and the state/society cannot exists without us.. the individual...

we have a mutual need and dependence on each other...this
much I know... evolution has forced us into mutual dependence on
each other... we have no other choice...and so what is true of us
collectively is also true of us individually...

that we are, us or as one, not without flaws...
that to move us into the future, we must work on improving
ourselves, both individually and collectively.....
we don't have to reach perfection, we just have to get better...
as one and as a collective...

and how would I understand ''getting better?''
what criteria would I use to make sense of ''getting better"
what would I say is getting better?

the values we hold are what is important...those values decide our
''getting better".. or not....if we take an honest look at nature, of animals
and plants and trees and the earth, we see that nature does practice equality...
that no one animal is greater than another fellow animal of its type....
mind you justice/equality must be judge within a species....
deer's to deer's, not deer's to lions, or deer's to elephants......
looking at species that way, there is not a great deal of difference
between the various different types of animals... deer's are
very similar to other deer's...lions are very similar to other lions...
elephants are similar to other elephants..... and the same is true
of the human species....there isn't a great deal of physical differences
between human beings.. the average person is very similar to any other
average person.. the outliers are just that... the average person
exists within the same range as most all other human beings...the
bell curve I believe it is called... where everyone is huddled around the
same place, the median.. that in any type of bell curve,
68% of values (data) falls within one standard deviation,
and that 95% of the values (data) falls within two standard
deviations of the mean in either direction...
that means if men's average height is 5.8, that means
68% of all men will be around that height, and within a couple
of inches, 95% of all men will be around 5.8 in height within
a couple more inches...

the outliers will be on the outside of that 4 inches or so on either side
of 5.8...having lived in the Midwest, I can say that in Illinois, I feel
like I am taller than many, whereas in California I feel on the smaller
side of 5.8..

the average human being lies within a certain standard of height, weight,
sight, hearing, speed, smell... and the human condition is that we
are roughly equal in the business of being human... most of us are
on the average side with a few, on either side of that equation

so in intelligence, most people are roughly around 100..
that is the equal intelligence of most people... and most people will
be within a few points of 100...and there are exceptions to that
but the vast majority of people, of human beings are around 100 IQ....
that is what equality is... we are roughly made by evolution to
be roughly equal in our bodies, skills, intelligence, in our social
abilities, in our senses and in our needs.... and that is why in
the declaration of Independence, it is written, and meant to be
a true and correct statement...

''We hold these truths, to be self-evident, that all men
are created equal''

and so we are roughly equal.. and I can say that I am, still
a work in progress... that I have room for improvements,
I am not perfect, nor shall I ever be perfect, but I can be better
than I am now....

and we can say the exact same thing about our society and state...
that we can be equally, as a state, a society, we can be improved..
we can become better... we don't need to be perfect, just better...

and so what is preventing us from becoming better?

I can say, that holding to values that dehumanizes or devalues
human beings is not being better.. holding to values
that negate human beings, values like prejudice, hatred, bigotry,
anger, dishonesty, lying to others, greed, selfishness... are some
of the negative values that we can hold that devalues us,
as human beings.. holding to hate or violence or to greed or
bigotry isn't making us better human beings...
it is making us worse human beings.....

and to overcome this negativity requires us to hold to positive
values.... values like love, hope, peace, honesty, caring, integrity,
equality... those are the values that will make us better human beings...
and it is within those values that we can become better human beings....

doubt me... I ask you, what values do you teach your children?
do you teach them to hate or to hold onto greed or to violence?
no, few if any parents teach their children those negative values...
the values we teach our children are the values that we aspire to..
the positive values.... so to become a better human being,
we must aspire to values that improve us, not degrades us..

and that is what we should, ought to stand for... our own self
improvement... to become a better human being.....
and which values do we apply that is positive and not negative...
liberal values, not conservative values....

Kropotkin

in looking at our modern world today....

I don't see the impact or importance of ideas and concepts.
I do see ''practical'' applications being done.. wars, violence,
the general malaise of our modern world today....

and who is looking at what is to be? no one talks about or thinks
about what is to be, where we are and where we ought to be,
or need to be?

we are unclear, in doubt, questioning what is
and giving no thought to what is the coming world to look like....

in thinking about this... we are running to or away from individuals,
such as IQ45 and his butt buddy Putin, or Biden... to their thoughts
or beliefs... but we must do something different if we are,
in Heidegger's words, to be saved, we must return to reacting
to ideas and concepts, not to an individual content...
we have narrowed our vision to only include or accept
thinking about the impact of idiots like IQ45 and not to think
about the larger picture or do think about the idea's or even
the shape of any potential future.... we have narrowed our
vision to an incredibly small focus.. and anything outside of
that small focus is rejected or plain ignored...

what is the significance of following IQ45 ''vision'' into the future...
who knows as no one reflects on that point... IQ45 and the right
hold to a dystopian present with no thoughts as to what kind of
future should we be engaged with? The left, today anyway,
isn't much better... in reacting to events without any thought as
to what this event means in/to the future...

and has anyone that you have seen in the political or business side
of America talked about the future more than 5 minutes into
the future? I haven't.... the democrats talk about how IQ45 is an
existential threat to both America and humanity.. (and he is)
but has anyone asked, what happens after IQ45 is gone.. he is 78,
and in a declining mental state.. so, what does the world look
like after he is gone.. I'll guess within a couple of years...
and then now what? no one has given this any thought at all...
what does a post-IQ45 world look like?

he has effectively destroyed the GOP....they now stand for
conspiracy theories and failed political actions... they are in
a word, Nihilists... as the GOP doesn't stand for anything anymore...
and something new will arise from the right wing once, once IQ45 leaves
the scene..

and where do we go from here? because from where I am sitting,
America itself doesn't seem to stand for anything.. what values
do we hold to be our primary values in which we practice
and engage with? is values like Freedom really the value
of the future? with calls for a dictatorship coming from the right,
freedom seems to have lost its followers... and what about justice?
that value too seems to have fallen by the wayside... and what about
truth or honesty or peace? these values of the highest order also
are never talked about... If we don't hold to values anymore,
then we don't stand for anything...and I suspect this is in large part,
the reason for our current, rather depressing state of America today...

the pursuit of America is the pursuit of the nihilistic values of
the ''trinkets'' of existence.. the worthless pursuit of money,
fame, material possessions, of titles and power...
if we remove values to live by, then all is left is these
worthless pursuits of trinkets that have no meaning....
and that is all America stands for... not values
but worthless trinkets... and we wonder why
today's America feels so empty and barren?

it is not connected to anything but the pursuit of
trinkets... we are floating in air with nothing to connect
us to the ground... like the values that bring us back
to earth like peace or honor or love or justice or
community.... these values bring us back to, or
connect us back to our foundation, which is that
human beings are best served by values that guide
us into the future... hope is a value that can lead us
into a future... as is justice... our actions now are to
support and protect Americans with the use of
justice, for example, as our guiding principle... that is how we
go from today into tomorrow... using principles
that allow us to connect us to the earth...

for we can state that if we don't practice our values,
then we don't have them...
for example, justice delayed, is justice denied...
if the rich/powerful/influential can have justice delayed,
as it is in the case of IQ45, then we don't have judicial
system... justice delayed is having no justice system at all...

that is one example of the need for values to be practiced
and followed... or another way to say it, we have become
detached from the values that make us human...
and we act with no regard to the values behind them or
to the future possible results...

our thoughts and actions are thought about in terms of this moment
and this second... there is no thought about what our future
actions and thoughts might lead us too tomorrow...
we have isolated our thoughts and actions into
being ''ad hoc'' thing... instead of an overall principle
to be followed... ok, we allow IQ45 to escape justice for
his actions.... that is a temporary, ''ad hoc'' action,
but what does it mean for future presidents and our
future in general? if IQ45 can escape being held accountable,
the how do we hold future presidents accountable?
Justice is now whatever random beliefs we hold, ''ad hoc''
at that moment... justice no longer means anything...
it is an empty value.... if we allow IQ45 to escape accountability
for his actions.. we no longer practice justice...

and is that the message we want to send the future?
hay, justice means nothing to us, and it should mean nothing
to you either...... every value we now hold is simply an ''ad hoc''
value, of the moment, temporary.... all actions and beliefs
are the same as situational ethics... the situation dictates the ethics...
and is that the same for all values? is that the statement for
the future we want to make... all values are situational values...
worth something only in that moment and in that time?
the situation dictates the values we use? I would be frighten
for a future where we have situational values.... for then,
there is nothing, nothing permanent.... not even values....
and that is a scary future indeed....is that the future you want?
where even values only have importance in the moment, within
a situation? and what of the future... give it some thought,
because chances are, you are the only one giving any thought
to the future....

Kropotkin