Philosophy Now Forum

Hmm, I use blackbox as an online name... nothing to do with planes, more to do with privacy. I like stretching my brain, and sometimes that doesn't take much. Staring at the stars does it, trying to comprehend the sheer size of the place. I have no philosophic training, so am bound to ask some basic questions at times. The more I think about things, the less I believe, or that's how it's gone for a while now. But I'm not complaining, it's kind of freeing. I've been a raving christian, and even a raving network marketer for a time, but don't worry, they were past lives. I'm a lot less concerned with forcing my views onto others now. I'd rather spend time on my own thoughts. At the same time, I do like debating/discussing, it amazes me how much I learn amongst it... mostly from others, on the odd occasion from myself.

I have a few original thoughts, although I often find people have thought the same things before, no surprises. Here's one I'd be interested in comments on... it came to me as I was discussing the issue of freewill with someone. For many reasons I think freewill is illusory (actually, I think the term itself is inherently absurd, but that's another discussion). I am happy to enjoy the illusion, which I do, every day. Anyway, a possibly psychological explanation for why we feel this illusion occurred to me. It has to do with our lack of self-knowledge. Let's say a person is about to make a decision... the red pill or the blue pill... How many computations are occurring in that person's brain as they "make up their mind"? Way more than the person is aware of. Hell, what they had for breakfast that morning might be a factor, who knows? The thing is, the person himself (it's a guy) doesn't know what his own brain is going to end up with... let's say the clock is ticking... it's 20 seconds before the decision is made... will it be the red pill? Or the blue pill? 10 seconds... 5 seconds... it could go either way... 3, 2, 1... he chooses... the blue pill.

Now, I think "It could go either way" is a good description of freewill. And yet, that feeling arises only because we ourselves are unaware of the workings of our own brains. Could our inability to predict the outcome of our own thought processes be the origin of the illusion of freewill?

Welcome, blackbox, to the Philosophy Now forum!

I've made a thread in favour of Free Will with a name like: Pro Free Will - A Quickie,
just because I've come to think a few ideas, originally 3, but eventually has grown to 5 with some other comments to them.

I usually think of the PN magazine as a fine introduction to philosophy, where you get a quick picture on diverse topics, thus this forum runs well in unison.

Enjoy the varied writings! I hope you add to them as well and by all means feel free to ask! Cheers!

Welcome! blackbox.

My view is that we don't have free will but we do have choice which helps to give us the illusion of free will.

There is a lack of self-knowledge but this can be taken care of through relaxation and meditation where we can tune into ourselves and learn more about our true-self and the universe around us.

As for taking the red pill or the blue pill your mind is already made up before you realise it and become conscious of your decision. Brain scans have proved this. In other words if we relax and allow our thoughts to self-organise, some part of us comes to the best decision and then we become conscious of that decision. This is why relaxation and meditation helps solve difficulties before they become a problem.

By trying to predict the outcome we only get in our own way. We should back off and trust the process, trust our instincts, intuition and our own hidden storehouse of knowledge to come up with the right decision.

Anyway stick around it’s interesting around here and fun.

Hey Mystic, thanks! I wonder what you mean by "we have choice"? Do you mean we are able, in any given situation, to choose either of two options?

Yes, I'm aware of the study that showed - via some brain-imaging technology - that decisions occur several seconds before the subject thinks the "moment of decision" took place.

cheers!

Thanks for the welcome, Aetixintro. yeah, I didn't find your arguments at all compelling, but thanks for the link! cheers.

Yes, perhaps I should have provided the actual link, but I see that the topic still lingers on the first page of the Metaphysics section. Very well, good!

I do think the sides are quite entrenched in the Free Will/Determinism/Fatalism discussion so..., but you've been there!

Cheers!

blackbox,

In my simple view we have choice but on a deeper level something else is running the show - you know, like when we help someone make a decision and have them believe it was their idea in the first place. That's as far as I've got. I'm still trying to discover what the 'something else’ is and whether it is on the inside of us or on the outside of us.