Philosophy Now Forum

from today to tomorrow....
in thinking about things and the reading I just finished,

''SPQR" by Mary Beard....a history of Ancient Rome....

and it got me thinking about comparing then and now...
as any good book should do...

and first, today.....and because of the rampant tribalism that still exists today,
we still have many of the problems we had back then... the bigotry and
prejudice and hatred they had... the only difference is today, we are aware of
the bigotry and prejudice and hatred and the many problems they cause...
and in therein lies one of the modern days understanding of bigotry
and prejudice...today, we can see the costs of this bigotry and prejudice...
for there are no benefits of any kind to hold to this bigotry/prejudice...
it is a liability that brings us no profit or benefits to us at all...

but many of the defenders of this bigotry/prejudice, say that its
human nature to hate and be prejudice against others....
nonsense.. it is a choice.. look at children playing with each other...
there is no bigotry or prejudice in small children playing with each other...
in fact, it has been shown that we learn bigotry and prejudice from
our parents/family or our peers... bigotry/prejudice isn't an inherited
trait... we are not born with it...it is learned as is all behavior....
and a choice we make....and when it is a choice, it becomes the
all too familiar choice of ''US'' vs ''THEM''... and until we no longer
choose that ''US'' vs ''THEM'' mentality, our society will be fractured
and displaced, a schism that tears us apart...how can we individually
and collectively unite if we hold to such fissure as bigotry and prejudice?

is the division of human beings, into ''US'' vs ''THEM''
really so desirable, that we are willing to spend our lives in warfare
and discontentment that comes from an ''US'' vs ''THEM'' mentality?

is our ego's so in need of constant ego boast, that we are willing to spend
our lives in conflict and strife within our society and state, that stems
from an ''US'' vs ''THEM'' mentality, that is ego driven?

one might wonder why we haven't accomplished more and I can point to
this bigotry/ prejudice as being reasons why we are constant conflict,
both individually and collectively and this constant conflict prevents us
from achieving more...

and to return to this idea, that prejudice and bigotry is a choice,
we have seen many people practicing fairness, impartially, and tolerance...
and we build moments to those who have practice impartially and tolerance...
in both Jesus and MLK and Gandhi, as well as how Lincoln overcame his
intolerance to help free the slaves.. intolerance is not something that
we think is a trait to be practice or installed into people... and yet the
entire MAGA movement is bigotry and prejudice brought into the mainstream...
and I ask, is bigotry and prejudice really the ''best of us'' or is it the
''worst of us?''.... you already know this answer... but it takes courage to
even admit it to even ourselves... little less to anyone else...
and once again, the only defense, the ONLY DEFENSE one might have is,
''but Kropotkin, it is human nature" no, no it is not...in practicing
bigotry and prejudice, we are engaged with the animal side of human
nature...the lowest level of being human.. and we can't even make
a decent argument for being racist or bigoted or prejudice against others...
go ahead, make an argument for being bigoted or prejudice against others?
but I can a very strong argument for practicing tolerance and impartiality
toward others..
and one of the arguments for practicing tolerance and impartiality,
is the fact that in practicing tolerance, we create less conflict between
people and ourselves...both the society and state is more ordered
when people practice tolerance and impartiality toward others...
with conflict comes disorder and chaos and disarray and anarchy....

the disorder and chaos of our modern world stems from our practice
of intolerance and bigotry and prejudice...or does one think that
our current wars come from practicing tolerance and impartiality with
a side dish of fairness and love? of course not....
to make war on someone takes us as far away from tolerance and impartiality
as we can get...but Kropotkin, we can never remove conflict or disorder from
our world, if nothing else, you have taught us that.....and as I have stated before,
one of the major issues facing us as individual people and collectively, is
the way we practice conflict resolution... if there were one practice that
I would make everyone take, it is conflict resolution... how to resolve conflicts,
may be the biggest issue facing us individually and collectively....in some situations,
we may bend and in other situations, we don't bend but we hold out for a
solution that makes sense for everyone... or said another way, we practice
situational ethics and living... in other words, we use the situation to create
the rules of life and how we are going to handle it..

or can we believe that any sort of universal rules of actions or behavior,
can sort out all the situations we face? I believe that there are more
exceptions than there are rules.. for every single rule and law,
has a number of exceptions to it... and this forces us to reevaluate
what it means to be human if every single rule/law of being human,
has an exception to it....

so, in going from today into tomorrow, what type of tomorrow do
you want to see? I want to see a conflict free tomorrow where
we have learned to revolve our conflicts to everyone's satisfaction,
where we no longer act from ego or desire... where we are tolerant
of everyone because we hope that everyone is tolerant to us...
and that path means that we no longer practice bigotry or prejudice
toward anyone.....that is my path... what is your path?

Kropotkin

much of what I thought of Rome was confirmed by ''SPQR''
but what is most interesting to me is that order in which
Rome took... so, it went from disorder to order and then back
disorder....the order part came with the military campaigns of early
Roman history...in which much of the Mediterranean became
a Roman lake...but part of the problem which started to show
during those years before Caesar, say from 200 bc to 100 bc....
was the lack of checks and balances.. there was nothing to stop
a Senator or an equally wealthy private citizen from raising their
own army and try to run/dominate the streets of Rome...
during those years between 200 and 100 bc, there were several
mini civil wars, fought by the various private armies of the wealthy men...
in which as the years passed became more public armies...
Caesar had his private/public army funded by Rome... and that became
the norm... civil war fought by the various armies of Rome under
the command of their leaders.. who may or may not be loyal to Rome....
this division of the Armies into private control help lead into the chaos
and disfunction of the Roman world until Augustus...with it many civil wars
fought by the various factions of the armies of Rome...and I am not sure
how anyone can call that being united or working for the same purposes
or conversely being called disordered or chaos...a civil war by its very
purpose is not uniting or creating order in the world.. it is chaos
and disorder... the very opposite of what we are trying to achieve....

and we see today, the new dysfunctional armies of private citizens...
IQ45 MAGA army that tried to overthrow the government and by
Desantis attempt to create a public/private army in Florida...
DeSatan is trying to use the national guard as his own private army...
as is Texas.... we can see this for what it is, the attempt to destabilize
the society/state of America... to create chaos and disorder into America....
and the outright refusal of states to obey the courts system of America...
as several southern states have done recently...for example, as Alabama
has refused to follow the courts in their creation of districts in which
people vote in.... in which they refused to obey even the US Supreme Court
decision... and that is the story of chaos and disorder... and many wonder
today why America seems to be disordered and chaotic....

the fact is that anything that separates us, divides us is bringing about
disorder and chaos...any attempt at creating an ''US'' vs ''THEM'' is an attempt
to create disorder and chaos and dare I say it, Anarchy...or is the path into
the future best brought about by chaos and disorder or, OR by order and
structure? I think the answer is pretty clear but many will argue that
dissent is helping bringing about order... and to some extent, that is correct...
we can often find order in our legal and peaceful dissent of some law or rule....

but we cannot find order or structure through the mindless violence of
Jan 6, in which the goal was to prevent the orderly and peaceful
passing of the government from one party to another....
and we cannot find peace and order in the attempt to create disorder
and chaos by the village idiot IQ45....

the question becomes, do we want order and structure in America or
do we want anarchy, disorder and chaos?

and our choice brings about the path into the future....which future do
you want? order or disorder? and who do we best go about achieving this future??

Kropotkin

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 5:39 pm but many of the defenders of this bigotry/prejudice, say that its
human nature to hate and be prejudice against others....
nonsense.. it is a choice.. look at children playing with each other...
there is no bigotry or prejudice in small children playing with each other...
in fact, it has been shown that we learn bigotry and prejudice from
our parents/family or our peers... bigotry/prejudice isn't an inherited
trait... we are not born with it...it is learned as is all behavior....
and a choice we make....and when it is a choice, it becomes the
all too familiar choice of ''US'' vs ''THEM''... and until we no longer
choose that ''US'' vs ''THEM'' mentality, our society will be fractured
and displaced, a schism that tears us apart...how can we individually
and collectively unite if we hold to such fissure as bigotry and prejudice?
Kropotkin

Presenting a countering view to your "nurture over nature" hypothesis is not a defense of bigotry/prejudice. That would be nonsense.

It’s been quite awhile since I read it, but I recall that a theme in Lord of Flies, by William Golding, is that mob mentality resulting in violence is inherent within human nature.

This means that otherwise normal folks can revert to savagery when circumstances cause mob identity to involuntarily replace personal identity.

The story may still be a part of high school curricula. Something to consider in relation to your enquiry and musing.

Come to think of it, inherent savagery in part explains reports of savagery by Gaza “civilians” on that fateful day in Israel, reports that resemble what the Poles did to the Jews in WWII, turning on their neighbors for favours from the occupying oppressors, only now the favour-granters are Hamas, who train the little children to hate.

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 5:39 pm...how can we individually and collectively unite if we hold to such fissure as bigotry and prejudice?
Kropotkin

The centralized answer to the question, which is what you're requesting, is mandated Soma holidays. The current precursor to that solution is cannabis "dispensaries,"at least until the Soma chemistry gets sorted out.

https://www.huxley.net/soma/somaquote.html