Philosophy Now Forum

In a recent interview with Alex O'connor [AO], Richard Dawkins [RD] relented with some concession on his views related to his anti-God stance;

"It's Sheer Bullsh*t” - Richard Dawkins on Jordan Peterson's Theology
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eWDiaDOX0E

@ 3:30
[AO] …..Peter Jordenson kept talking about the biblical Corpus
He [CW] said when you say the biblical Corpus do you mean the Bible he says yes and
I'm thinking well you know why not just call it the Bible then
but he has inspired this this renewed interest in in the biblical Corpus because of that because now when you see people debating religion it tends to be less does God exist and more about the utility of religion and the union archetypes and stuff
The God Delusion which was the atheist book, do you think it still survives as a sufficient treatment of God and religion in modern culture
if you were to write it again would you be taking the same approach of talking about it as a scientific issue or would you feel the need to change the way that you're talking about

[RD] I would certainly still talk about it as a scientific issue because I think that's the most important thing
I probably might add a chapter on the idea of well what Dan Nichols it calls belief in belief
where the idea that that that whether you believe it or not, it's a good idea that some people do and

I think that's patronizing I think that's condescending
it's sort of saying well we intellectuals don't need don't need this crutch but other people may do and if they do then it's a good thing because it helps in the battle against Putin not the Putin himself is
[AO]I think Voltaire said uh I don't believe in God but I hope that my maid does

[RD]well that's I didn't know that quote it's a very good example um and
that is so patronizing

My views are, while God is an illusion [impossible to be proven as real], it is nevertheless a useful illusion and fiction.

useful for who?

-Imp

I think he's going senile. Such a shame. There are no interesting public intellectuals left. Jordan Peterson is awful and that voice...

From an anarchist's perspective there are both aggravating and mitigating factors concerning the existence and utility of christians, so the answer is difficult. The question is essentially: how much of a tangible pestilence can they actually be.

On one hand, they're far less likely to commit criminal acts and become an inconvenience. For example, becuz of christianity i don't have to be very concerned with people stealing my shit or shooting me. On the other hand, they're the first ones to tell on u if they catch u in a criminal act.

But the general, overall effect of christianity is digressive becuz it hinders the development of class consciousness and the ambition to radically reform society. It intoxicates the working class, in other words, making them unable to have the sobriety necessary to recognize and take real problems seriously. In that overall sense, yes, they are pests and not useful at all.

In that same sense tho they are incredibly useful to the ruling capitalist class becuz of their revolutionary impotence.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:14 am From an anarchist's perspective there are both aggravating and mitigating factors concerning the existence and utility of christians, so the answer is difficult. The question is essentially: how much of a tangible pestilence can they actually be.

On one hand, they're far less likely to commit criminal acts and become an inconvenience. For example, becuz of christianity i don't have to be very concerned with people stealing my shit or shooting me. On the other hand, they're the first ones to tell on u if they catch u in a criminal act.

But the general, overall effect of christianity is digressive becuz it hinders the development of class consciousness and the ambition to radically reform society. It intoxicates the working class, in other words, making them unable to have the sobriety necessary to recognize and take real problems seriously. In that overall sense, yes, they are pests and not useful at all.

In that same sense tho they are incredibly useful to the ruling capitalist class becuz of their revolutionary impotence.

Kristians are less likely to do crime? Are you serious?

Not authentic Christians, no.

Oh but there's another aggravating factor: the ubiquitous and seductive nature of christianity creates the opportunity for frauds to take advantage of people.

But here there is a natural selection going on that regulates this process. The frauds don't fool the atheists, only other Christians. But the real Christians are already fooled, so what does it matter.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:25 am Kristians are less likely to do crime? Are you serious?

Christians as people like all humans, some will do evil and crimes as humans do.
But by the Constitution of Christianity, all Christians are contractually and duty bound to love all, even enemies, so Christians cannot commit crimes against those they are supposed to love.
All Christians are contractually obligated [within the Gospels only] to comply with the terms of the contract to ensure of a passage to heaven with eternal life and avoid eternal hellfire.

So Christianity-proper do not condone Christians to commit evil [crimes, etc.].
If "Christians" are seen to commit evil, that is on the own personal volitions which a sin and be subjected to God's punishments for non-compliance to the contract [covenant].

What is problematic and pesky is that Christians are obligated to save souls and convert non-believers to Christianity, even at the last moment on someone's deathbed.
This is Spiritual Terrorists [divine & psychological]
viewtopic.php?t=41624

Here are some supporting verses from the Gospels [terms of the contract].

Matthew 28:18-20: "Then Jesus came to them and said, 'All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.'" This is the most direct command to spread the gospel and bring others to Christ.

Parables:
Matthew 18:12-14: "What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep and one of them has wandered away, will he not leave the ninety-nine in the mountains and go to seek the one that has wandered away? And if he finds it, truly, I say to you, he rejoices more over the one that has wandered away than over the ninety-nine that did not wander away. In the same way, it is not the will of your Father in heaven that one of these little ones should perish." This parable emphasizes God's desire for all people to be saved and encourages
Christians to actively seek out those who are lost.
Luke 15:1-7: "Now the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to Jesus to listen to him. And the Pharisees and the scribes grumbled, saying, 'This man receives sinners and eats with them.' But he told them this parable: 'What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness and go after the one that is lost until he finds it? And when he finds it, he lays it on his shoulders and rejoices. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found the sheep that was lost!' Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.'" Similar to the previous parable, this one highlights God's joy over a lost soul who finds faith.

Other verses:
John 15:16: "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you." This verse connects bearing fruit, which can be interpreted as sharing the faith, with receiving blessings from God.
Matthew 5:14-16: "You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead, they put it on a lampstand, where it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven." This verse encourages Christians to be active witnesses to their faith and let it shine through their actions.
..........

On the other hand, there is a religion [I....] where their believers are contracted to comply with the terms-of-contract that obligate believers to kill non-believers upon the slightest threat to the religion.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:59 am In 2021, atheists made up only 0.1% of the federal prison population

So 1) the percentage of people who call themselves atheists is at around 3 - 4 %.
2) There are potential benefits to being considered religious, by parole boards, for example.
3) The people coming into prison are not thinking of their philosophical position when they check a box. They are born into religious backgrounds. They see the box that matches how they grew up, even if it was a pretty damn secular version, with occasional funerals and weddings as the only churchgoing.

How many prisoners actually believe in God...there's no good way to know that.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 6:30 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:59 am In 2021, atheists made up only 0.1% of the federal prison population

So 1) the percentage of people who call themselves atheists is at around 3 - 4 %.
2) There are potential benefits to being considered religious, by parole boards, for example.
3) The people coming into prison are not thinking of their philosophical position when they check a box. They are born into religious backgrounds. They see the box that matches how they grew up, even if it was a pretty damn secular version, with occasional funerals and weddings as the only churchgoing.

How many prisoners actually believe in God...there's no good way to know that.

Americans are pretty much all religious nuts. It's disgraceful that only 3-4% aren't religious dipshits. Even with that pathetic number, 0.1% is still a lot less than their alleged numbers would indicate. And if you compare the intelligence level of your average moronic American kristian with an American who describes themselves as 'atheist' it's like comparing Carl Sagan to a gibbon.
Anyway, the POINT is that obviously being a 'christian' is no deterrent to doing crime.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 6:38 am Americans are pretty much all religious nuts.

You're like a surly teenager when it comes to Americans. Much as I'm critical of religious nuts.

It's disgraceful that only 3-4% aren't religious dipshits. Even with that pathetic number, 0.1% is still a lot less than their alleged numbers would indicate. And if you compare the intelligence level of your average moronic American kristian with an American who describes themselves as 'atheist' it's like comparing Carl Sagan to a gibbon.

Presumably you mean comparing a gibbon the Carl Sagan. I mean, if you're going to hurl bile at everyone and call them idiots, you might as well learn how to get the sequence right in a basic analogy.

Anyway, the POINT is that obviously being a 'christian' is no deterrent to doing crime.

And just like religious dipshits, you can't really interact with the points other people make. You just make more assertions and avoid interacting. Puts you in a category with people like VA and IC. The latter a religious nut, the former his own special category.

Most of your posts boil down to 'I hate ____________'.

Great, thanks for using PN as your diary.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 6:50 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 6:38 am Americans are pretty much all religious nuts.

You're like a surly teenager when it comes to Americans. Much as I'm critical of religious nuts.

It's disgraceful that only 3-4% aren't religious dipshits. Even with that pathetic number, 0.1% is still a lot less than their alleged numbers would indicate. And if you compare the intelligence level of your average moronic American kristian with an American who describes themselves as 'atheist' it's like comparing Carl Sagan to a gibbon.

Presumably you mean comparing a gibbon the Carl Sagan. I mean, if you're going to hurl bile at everyone and call them idiots, you might as well learn how to get the sequence right in a basic analogy.

Anyway, the POINT is that obviously being a 'christian' is no deterrent to doing crime.

And just like religious dipshits, you can't really interact with the points other people make. You just make more assertions and avoid interacting. Puts you in a category with people like VA and IC. The latter a religious nut, the former his own special category.

Most of your posts boil down to 'I hate ____________'.

Great, thanks for using PN as your diary.

All you do is make personal attacks, which are water off a duck's back of course. As if I give a flying rat's arse what you think of me.

"3) The people coming into prison are not thinking of their philosophical position when they check a box."

I can attest to this. When i got to Hyde i noticed the vegan inmates got way bigger servings becuz u had to eat a shit ton of beans and rice to get all your essential amino acids. They'd get this huge scoop instead of a tiny little wrinkled up pork chop or whatever. So i was like yo what do i gotta do to be a vegan becuz I'm fuckin starvin ova here. Dude was like 'become a buddhist'. So i request to see my case manager and i tell him the world is pointless suffering (which is a lie; the world is will to power and nothing besides) and i wanna achieve nirvana so I'm a buddhist now.

At another camp they didn't serve kosher diets so i became a jew to get off that camp and they moved me to one that did serve kosher diets. Bad move tho becuz that camp had a much smaller yard. So then i had to figure out a way to get off that one so requested to be put in one of the sex offender program deals that that camp didn't have, so they moved me back to Hyde. Had to tell em I wasn't a jew anymore. When I got back to Hyde I canceled my request to be in the SO program becuz who wants to go to classes with a bunch of pervs. This resulted in me being uneligible for transfer to a green clothes minimum security camp but I didn't care becuz I was fixin to check off anyway so they'd send me to Bertie (max) where I could get my own cell (as opposed to the dorm room cot bullshit where them n*ggas be talkin all night and won't shut the fuck up so I can sleep).

'Check off' means disobey a direct order and refuse to go to your block. First they put u in lock up for a few weeks and tryda talk to into going back to your block. U tell em 'go fuck yourself, shit stack, i ain't movin' and they gotta send u to a max facility.

It's all about having your own cell bro. Medium and minimum could be like disney land but u still don't get your own cell, so fuck that. N*ggas be checkin off on purpose just to be moved to maximum.