Philosophy Now Forum

I find it frustrating that people still can't get or won't get the
idea of communism, socialism and capitalism/democracy....

the basic idea behind communism is that the state owns
the means of production... stores, businesses, utilities,
everything.. and absolutely no one around here advocates for that...
there are no communist here in Philosophy now..

socialism, where the state owns some means of production and
there are private enterprise's that own other aspects of the means
of production... thus we have social security, which is socialism,
and we have libraries and where the roads are built and maintained
by the government and where stores and businesses are privately owned...

and we have capitalism, where all the means of production is owned by
private businesses.. the roads and police and airports and gas and water
utilities are owned by private enterprise... we in America had this type
of system, from about 1870 to roughly 1910.... and it was so hated,
by everyone except those who owned the means of production, that this
''age of Robber Barons" was rejected by most of America... think of
Teddy Roosevelt, who himself was part of the very wealthy in America
at that time....

so, what type of class, communism, socialism or capitalism do we have
today? America as is most of the world is socialism... social security is
publicly ''owned'' as is the roads and sewage plants.. and the state/society
us far better off with these important aspects of life is publicly owned...
and other means of production is privately owned....we have a mixed
type of government... again, as does most of the world....

so, anyone who attacks another as being socialistic or communistic,
beware... America is a socialistic state, as is England and France and
virtually all of Europe is socialistic... as is India and Japan and Australia
and Russia.... all socialistic states... socialism is the dominant political
system in the world today and it isn't even close...

and if you approve of America, you approve of socialism and if you
approve of England, you approve of socialism...in fact,
you are a socialist if you approve of social security or welfare or
Medicare... the fact is that America is a socialist country and everyone
in it, is socialist... and many around here just don't understand that...

Kropotkin

"the basic idea behind communism is that the state owns
the means of production"

Don't say 'state owns' becuz that scares people and stirs up visions of 1984 (movie) in their heads, something the conservative narrative has worked so hard to guarantee by substituting 'state' for 'working class government'.

Conservative capitalist: hey, working class Joe, u know the communists are tryna create a totalitarian government, right? Doncha hate the government? Of course u do, so vote conservative, get back to work and I'll give u a thirty cent raise when you're up for review in six months.

"socialism, where the state owns some means of production... and capitalism, where all the means of production is owned by
private businesses"

What's so funny (to a leftist) is that no, or nearly no, capitalist would be successful today in a pure capitalist society (as u note). The john galts of the world would have sunk a century ago if the government were any smaller.

So what to do then. Ah. Make a partnership between the the government, the federal reserve, the banks and the big capitalists. Create and maintain an opposition party (liberal democrat) to keep up appearances and give the exploited working classes somebody to vote for. But fundamentally change nothing; create social security and medicare for safety nets. Subsidize failing businesses and keep printing money.

It really is surreal how so few people recognize what's goin on, man. I mean even those people who would benefit the most from a marxist government/economy are some of its loudest adversaries (cue Joe). And they're not even objecting to marxism either... but a caricature of it that has been manufactured and put into their books, TVs, and ultimately their heads.

But the absolute worst are the conservatives who constantly complain about all the ills of society and then blame that on the left... when, in fact, these are the direct effects, the products, of capitalism/consumerism. Poverty, identity crisis, social alienation, crime, racism, sexism, etc.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 9:16 am "the basic idea behind communism is that the state owns
the means of production"

Don't say 'state owns' becuz that scares people and stirs up visions of 1984 (movie) in their heads, something the conservative narrative has worked so hard to guarantee by substituting 'state' for 'working class government'.

Conservative capitalist: hey, working class Joe, u know the communists are tryna create a totalitarian government, right? Doncha hate the government? Of course u do, so vote conservative, get back to work and I'll give u a thirty cent raise when you're up for review in six months.

"socialism, where the state owns some means of production... and capitalism, where all the means of production is owned by
private businesses"

What's so funny (to a leftist) is that no, or nearly no, capitalist would be successful today in a pure capitalist society (as u note). The john galts of the world would have sunk a century ago if the government were any smaller.

So what to do then. Ah. Make a partnership between the the government, the federal reserve, the banks and the big capitalists. Create and maintain an opposition party (liberal democrat) to keep up appearances and give the exploited working classes somebody to vote for. But fundamentally change nothing; create social security and medicare for safety nets. Subsidize failing businesses and keep printing money.

It really is surreal how so few people recognize what's goin on, man. I mean even those people who would benefit the most from a marxist government/economy are some of its loudest adversaries (cue Joe). And they're not even objecting to marxism either... but a caricature of it that has been manufactured and put into their books, TVs, and ultimately their heads.

But the absolute worst are the conservatives who constantly complain about all the ills of society and then blame that on the left... when, in fact, these are the direct effects, the products, of capitalism/consumerism. Poverty, identity crisis, social alienation, crime, racism, sexism, etc.

K: yep... exactly right...

Kropotkin