Philosophy Now Forum

What am I doing right now? Thinking about it, it may be a hopelessly vague question. Or it could be a tantalizingly interesting question. It could be answered by, "I am discussing something on an Internet forum". Or it could be answered by something like, "I am trying to entertain myself". Or it could be answered by, "I am making a fool of myself". Or perhaps it could be interpreted as some sort of noble display of human intelligence.

The possible answers seem almost endless and almost boundless in some respects. Or perhaps they are bounded by only being those things that I am capable of thinking that I am doing. Anything that I am incapable of thinking or discussing, is perhaps not something I can describe myself as doing. Does that mean I am not doing those things? Or does that simply mean I am doing them but not aware I am doing them?

But whatever it is I am doing is not something that feels "good". I am depressed, demoralized, sad, melancholic. And if I did something else, I would also likely be depressed, demoralized, sad, and melancholic.

In some strange sense, I wonder if I were to change my activity to something like robbing a bank or bungee jumping if it would make me feel "better", more "alive" more "engaged" or something.

And then there's the question, "Why do I feel this way". Or is it possible that I could feel a different way than I do?

And there is also the question that comes to mind, is what I'm doing "acceptable", "not acceptable", "terrible" or "wonderful"... (and the list goes on again).

But through it all, I feel depressed, demoralized, sad, and melancholic. Perhaps it's who I am, what I do, how I feel, at least for now.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 11:38 pm What am I doing right now? Thinking about it, it may be a hopelessly vague question. Or it could be a tantalizingly interesting question. It could be answered by, "I am discussing something on an Internet forum". Or it could be answered by something like, "I am trying to entertain myself". Or it could be answered by, "I am making a fool of myself". Or perhaps it could be interpreted as some sort of noble display of human intelligence.

The possible answers seem almost endless and almost boundless in some respects. Or perhaps they are bounded by only being those things that I am capable of thinking that I am doing. Anything that I am incapable of thinking or discussing, is perhaps not something I can describe myself as doing. Does that mean I am not doing those things? Or does that simply mean I am doing them but not aware I am doing them?

With this type of 'thought experiment' what can be CLEARLY UNCOVERED is that 'thoughts' or 'thinking' WITHIN a human body can NOT be continually followed and/nor even kept up with.

Which, if and when FULLY RECOGNIZED and SEEN, is one of the FIRST STEPS that then leads on to FURTHER DISCOVERING of WHO and WHAT 'I' AM, EXACTLY.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 11:38 pm But whatever it is I am doing is not something that feels "good". I am depressed, demoralized, sad, melancholic. And if I did something else, I would also likely be depressed, demoralized, sad, and melancholic.

BUT 'these things' ARE NOT WHO NOR WHAT 'I' AM.

The 'I' can NEVER EVER be 'those, nor other, things'.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 11:38 pm In some strange sense, I wonder if I were to change my activity to something like robbing a bank or bungee jumping if it would make me feel "better", more "alive" more "engaged" or something.

BUT how one 'feels' IS MOSTLY BECAUSE OF 'thought' or 'thinking', which REALLY does NOT, necessarily, HAVE TO COME FROM what a visible and physical material human body IS DOING, AT ALL.

For example, one could be DOING the MOST ENJOYABLE 'thing', in 'the world', to 'one person', but if within 'that body' there IS 'the thought', 'I am, or I feel, depressed, demoralized, sad, and/or melancholic, then 'this' IS what 'you' ARE, or FEEL, right?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 11:38 pm And then there's the question, "Why do I feel this way". Or is it possible that I could feel a different way than I do?

'you' FEEL 'the way', 'you' DO, BECAUSE of 'the thoughts', within 'that body'. AND,

ALL 'thoughts' ARE BECAUSE of 'that bodies', PREVIOUS, Past Experiences.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 11:38 pm And there is also the question that comes to mind, is what I'm doing "acceptable", "not acceptable", "terrible" or "wonderful"... (and the list goes on again).

'Acceptable', 'not acceptable', 'terrible', and/or 'wonderful' TO WHO and/or WHAT, EXACTLY?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 11:38 pm But through it all, I feel depressed, demoralized, sad, and melancholic. Perhaps it's who I am, what I do, how I feel, at least for now.

Now, SAYING, 'I FEEL depressed, demoralized, sad, and/or melancholic', EXPRESSES A FAR MORE TRUTH than SAYING, 'I AM ... [those things]'.

(BUT STILL NOT QUITE 'there', nor 'here', YET.)

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 11:38 pm What am I doing right now? Thinking about it, it may be a hopelessly vague question.

- That question creates a pause to process change.

- What matters most is the pause.
- It's like, what you do with the breath doesn't matter as much as the breath itself.
- Otherwise, you're just apeing machines.
- Otherwise, you're like a mule, just plugging right along.
- If one is always paused, that's not pausing.

"One of the most dangerous forms of human error is forgetting what one is trying to achieve."
- Paul Nitze (a cold war man)

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 11:38 pm What am I doing right now? Thinking about it, it may be a hopelessly vague question.

The possible answers seem almost endless and almost boundless in some respects. Or perhaps they are bounded by only being those things that I am capable of thinking that I am doing. Anything that I am incapable of thinking or discussing, is perhaps not something I can describe myself as doing. Does that mean I am not doing those things? Or does that simply mean I am doing them but not aware I am doing them?

But whatever it is I am doing is not something that feels "good". I am depressed, demoralized, sad, melancholic. And if I did something else, I would also likely be depressed, demoralized, sad, and melancholic.

To be yourself is very easy, you don't have to do a thing. No effort is necessary. You don't have to exercise will, you don't have to do anything to be yourself. But to be something other than what you are, you have to do a lot of things. You have to tell yourself you are depressed, melancholic etc....and if you can tell yourself these things, you can also tell yourself you are perfectly at peace with the world and yourself in every moment.

YOU do not have to do a thing, or tell yourself anything, in the same way YOU do not have to tell your hair and nails to grow or your heart to beat, or your lungs to inhale and exhale oxygen.

It's hard to be no one, to be a nobody, to be nothing. People just want to be identified as someone, as something, as anything, so it tells itself it is a sad depressed, melancholic demoralized person, and that's got to be better than being a no one, a nobody, and nothing at all, I suppose.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 12:28 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 11:38 pm What am I doing right now? Thinking about it, it may be a hopelessly vague question.

The possible answers seem almost endless and almost boundless in some respects. Or perhaps they are bounded by only being those things that I am capable of thinking that I am doing. Anything that I am incapable of thinking or discussing, is perhaps not something I can describe myself as doing. Does that mean I am not doing those things? Or does that simply mean I am doing them but not aware I am doing them?

But whatever it is I am doing is not something that feels "good". I am depressed, demoralized, sad, melancholic. And if I did something else, I would also likely be depressed, demoralized, sad, and melancholic.

To be yourself is very easy, you don't have to do a thing. No effort is necessary. You don't have to exercise will, you don't have to do anything to be yourself. But to be something other than what you are, you have to do a lot of things. You have to tell yourself you are depressed, melancholic etc....and if you can tell yourself these things, you can also tell yourself you are perfectly at peace with the world and yourself in every moment.

VERY, VERY True.

And, GREAT ADVICE, AS WELL.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 12:28 pm YOU do not have to do a thing, or tell yourself anything, in the same way YOU do not have to tell your hair and nails to grow or your heart to beat, or your lungs to inhale and exhale oxygen.

It's hard to be no one, to be a nobody, to be nothing.

But BECAUSE Being NO 'one', with NO 'body', and BEING NO 'thing' IS JUST the Truly Natural STATE, then JUST Being 'this' IS NOT hard AT ALL.

In fact like absolutely EVERY 'thing' "ELSE", IN Life, JUST Being thy (True) 'Self', ALONE, IS the MOST SIMPLEST and MOST EASIEST 'thing' TO DO.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 12:28 pm People just want to be identified as someone, as something, as anything, so it tells itself it is a sad depressed, melancholic demoralized person, and that's got to be better than being a no one, a nobody, and nothing at all, I suppose.

WHEN 'these people' ALSO COME-TO-SEE, and REALIZE, what the ACTUAL Truth IS, EXACTLY, the WATCHING and OBSERVING OF 'this' UNFOLD WILL BE Truly BEAUTIFUL.

WHEN 'these people' ALSO COME-TO-SEE, and REALIZE, what the ACTUAL Truth IS, EXACTLY, the WATCHING and OBSERVING OF 'this' UNFOLD WILL BE Truly BEAUTIFUL.

Beautifully tragic.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 12:28 pm To be yourself is very easy, you don't have to do a thing. No effort is necessary.

Just being for a moment is not difficult unless one wants to continue to be for longer than that. continuing to be requires effort. Otherwise, we'd starve to death from not making the effort to eat.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 11:38 pm What am I doing right now?

What you’re doing right now is reading these words.
Yes, it is that simple.

And after these words, awareness will have a little relationship with thoughts, plural.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 8:44 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 12:28 pm To be yourself is very easy, you don't have to do a thing. No effort is necessary.

Just being for a moment is not difficult unless one wants to continue to be for longer than that. continuing to be requires effort. Otherwise, we'd starve to death from not making the effort to eat.

Continuing to BE does not require effort. Being is purely automatic and spontaneous. A thirst comes, water is sought and drank, a hunger comes and food is sought and eaten, this is an automatic continuance of an alive being. Just as the heart continues to beat and the lungs continue to inhale and exhale air effortlessly. Hunger continues to come, thirst continues to come, wee and poo continue to be expelled from the body, no effort required.

When food is sought and eaten, hunger subsides, all of which is happening effortlessly. No person ever tells themself, gee, it's such an effort to obey my hunger pangs, or my thirst, most people usually rush to the nearest available tasty snack or drink instantly.

The continuance of BEING is not an effort. What would be an effort, and will most inevitably take a great deal of effort in fact, would be to intentionally resist seeking food to eat to eliminate effortless arising hunger pangs in the body, continuing to resist and ignore the hunger and just watching and waiting for their body to die from starvation, yes, that would take an enormous amount of effort to deliberately resist the bodies will to stay alive......And is not what is being discussed here.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2023 10:43 amContinuing to BE does not require effort. Being is purely automatic and spontaneous. A thirst comes, water is sought and drank, a hunger comes and food is sought and eaten, this is an automatic continuance of an alive being. Just as the heart continues to beat and the lungs continue to inhale and exhale air effortlessly. Hunger continues to come, thirst continues to come, wee and poo continue to be expelled from the body, no effort required.

When food is sought and eaten, hunger subsides, all of which is happening effortlessly. No person ever tells themself, gee, it's such an effort to obey my hunger pangs, or my thirst, most people usually rush to the nearest available tasty snack or drink instantly.

The continuance of BEING is not an effort. What would be an effort, and will most inevitably take a great deal of effort in fact, would be to intentionally resist seeking food to eat to eliminate effortless arising hunger pangs in the body, continuing to resist and ignore the hunger and just watching and waiting for their body to die from starvation, yes, that would take an enormous amount of effort to deliberately resist the bodies will to stay alive......And is not what is being discussed here.

I disagree. Being *IS* an effort, even when you become accustomed and habituated to it. The problem is ignorance. You are ignoring the energy and effort required for your upkeep. You aren't self-conscious of it, very much. That doesn't make it disappear. It only means that effort in addition to the upkeep, are what you consider "real effort". That's effort, on top of effort.

It's about what a person is conscious/self-aware of.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2023 11:21 am I disagree. Being *IS* an effort, even when you become accustomed and habituated to it. The problem is ignorance. You are ignoring the energy and effort required for your upkeep. You aren't self-conscious of it, very much. That doesn't make it disappear. It only means that effort in addition to the upkeep, are what you consider "real effort". That's effort, on top of effort.

It's about what a person is conscious/self-aware of.

I strongly disagree.

There is no person or thing for that matter, being or making an effort to be. Being is simply happening, and there is not anything that is making this happening happen, nor is there anything that can stop this happening from happening.

The 'one' who apparently knows it is making the effort to be, is simply an illusion. This effortless being is completely whole self-sufficient, working and functioning perfectly and effortlessly all by itself, one without a second, without any other agency interfering in this natural automatic unitary action of being.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2023 12:20 pmI strongly disagree.

There is no person or thing for that matter, being or making an effort to be. Being is simply happening, and there is not anything that is making this happening happen, nor is there anything that can stop this happening from happening.

Okay...stop breathing. And see how long your life continues "Being".

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 11:38 pmBut whatever it is I am doing is not something that feels "good". I am depressed, demoralized, sad, melancholic. And if I did something else, I would also likely be depressed, demoralized, sad, and melancholic.

No person can tell themselves they feel all those depressing emotions, that one who does apparently feel like it is the person feeling those feelings is in fact no one at all, that one who apparently knows it exists, or seems to tell itself it exists, and that feelings are happening to it, does not actually exist, that one who claims to know, is an illusion. If you say you know, you don't.

All those feelings arise in no person, as no person is making those feelings come or go. Feelings are just happening to no one. Making it personal, is no one making it personal. It's hopeless to cling to these delusions, that is me and mine...when feelings arise and fall in no one. So making no one a someone is just no one apparently making a hopeless useless suffering illusory someone all in vain.

The fact is, these feeling arise and there is absolutely nothing that can stop them arising, and will only go away when it is time for them to go, and not one second before, as no one ever makes feeling happen or be absent from happening.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2023 12:22 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2023 12:20 pmI strongly disagree.

There is no person or thing for that matter, being or making an effort to be. Being is simply happening, and there is not anything that is making this happening happen, nor is there anything that can stop this happening from happening.

Okay...stop breathing. And see how long your life continues "Being".

Oh right, so you think that's you holding you're breath. Try again, but this time, see if you can force the breath to be on hold for as long as you can until you drop down dead, you'll soon find out it's not you forcing the body to release the hold.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2023 12:38 pmOh right, so you think that's you holding you're breath. Try again, but this time, see if you can force the breath to be on hold for as long as you can until you drop down dead, you'll soon find out it's not you forcing the body to release the hold.

That's a moot point...so I presume this is a concession from your previous statement.

And if I did pass out and automatically start breathing, how would that not "be me" doing so? Why am "I" disassociated from my breathing? Why are you? Why do you ignore the effort required for your life "To Be"? What does that effort represent, except that perhaps, you inadvertently admit to sources of energy and mechanisms which your life are Owed, rather than that you Own?