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Yes, physics is useful but it cannot tell anything about the ultimate truth about reality.
Words are not perfect. Their scope and meaning are not perfect. Sentences (grammar) is not perfect. They elicit experiences that are not exactly the same in different brains. Therefore, bahman's argument is not perfect.
My argument is valid.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:12 pmWords are not perfect. Their scope and meaning are not perfect. Sentences (grammar) is not perfect. They elicit experiences that are not exactly the same in different brains. Therefore, bahman's argument is not perfect.
OK, if you don't want to interact with what I wrote, don't. If you're satisfied essentially repeating yourself. Fine.bahman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:25 pmMy argument is valid.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:12 pmWords are not perfect. Their scope and meaning are not perfect. Sentences (grammar) is not perfect. They elicit experiences that are not exactly the same in different brains. Therefore, bahman's argument is not perfect.
How do you, supposedly, KNOW?
What do you think is wrong with my argument?Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:54 pmOK, if you don't want to interact with what I wrote, don't. If you're satisfied essentially repeating yourself. Fine.bahman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:25 pmMy argument is valid.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:12 pm Words are not perfect. Their scope and meaning are not perfect. Sentences (grammar) is not perfect. They elicit experiences that are not exactly the same in different brains. Therefore, bahman's argument is not perfect.
Please read OP.Age wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:21 pmHow do you, supposedly, KNOW?
How is it that you KNOW that there is a so-called 'ultimate truth about reality', and, that so-called 'physics' can NOT tell you absolutely ANY 'thing' about 'that reality'?
How did you find out about 'this alleged reality' and have that current knowledge ABOUT 'it' if 'physics' did NOT tell you absolutely ANY 'thing' ABOUT 'it'?
Well one issue I was raising was 'Why does a theory have to be perfect?" I raised that obliquely, so I get that that might have been missed. Now I've made it explicit. But if measurements not being utterly perfect is a problem and rules outbahman wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 10:55 amWhat do you think is wrong with my argument?Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:54 pmOK, if you don't want to interact with what I wrote, don't. If you're satisfied essentially repeating yourself. Fine.
then either the OP is not telling us anything about the ultimate truth about realityanything about the ultimate truth about reality.
Because there will be a deviation from what the theory predicts if you wait long enough or if you perform experiments on different scales.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 11:44 amWell one issue I was raising was 'Why does a theory have to be perfect?"bahman wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 10:55 amWhat do you think is wrong with my argument?Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:54 pm
OK, if you don't want to interact with what I wrote, don't. If you're satisfied essentially repeating yourself. Fine.
Yes, there is a problem if the measurement is not perfect. The problem is that the theory that is made based on such a measurement is just an approximation. So again, one can observe a deviation from what the theory predicts if one waits long enough or if one performs an experiment on different scales.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 11:44 am I raised that obliquely, so I get that that might have been missed. Now I've made it explicit. But if measurements not being utterly perfect is a problem and rules out tellinganything about the ultimate truth about reality.
The OP is telling a true statement about how a theory is linked to the experiment. Of course, one cannot expect to find a perfect theory unless one can make the perfect experiment. Until then, the result of the experiment is just an approximation hence the theory is an approximation as well.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 11:44 am then either the OP is not telling us anything about the ultimate truth about reality or the OP is wrong.
We can communicate well and make the argument precise enough through the discussion.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 11:44 am Language is not utterly precise and yet it seems that you frequently tell us your sense of the ultimate truth about reality.
See, my previous post for why I think language is not utterly precise, perhaps especially at the abstract level of much of your positions as presented here.
So, how can they manage to tell us anything about the ultimate truth about reality?
Would you say that the thread title is true because ultimate truth about reality applies to all situations, while physics (and this sentence) applies to a specific situation rather than all situations.
Yes.Walker wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 1:00 pmWould you say that the thread title is true because ultimate truth about reality applies to all situations, while physics (and this sentence) applies to a specific situation rather than all situations.