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Evolution, God made or an accident
Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2023 3:49 pm
by bahman
You cannot disprove the existence of a supernatural being that gives shape to nature. You cannot prove it either. Evolution is not a very precise practice. Even physics is not a very precise practice as things can be manipulated in digits that are beyond the precision of physics.
Re: Evolution, God made or an accident
Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2023 4:48 pm
by Impenitent
man made measurements into an imperfect system bring ultimate truth...
I have this bridge for sale...
-Imp
Re: Evolution, God made or an accident
Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2023 4:53 pm
by bahman
Impenitent wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 4:48 pm
man made measurements into an imperfect system bring ultimate truth...
I have this bridge for sale...
-Imp
No, that does not follow!
Re: Evolution, God made or an accident
Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:36 pm
by nemos
Evolution, God made or an accident
Does it have any significant meaning ?
The answer to the question whether there is a god or not does not give a final answer. Because you can always ask - who created god?
And don't try to claim otherwise without clear reasoning, based on faith alone.
Re: Evolution, God made or an accident
Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:38 pm
by bahman
nemos wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:36 pm
Evolution, God made or an accident
Does it have any significant meaning ?
The answer to the question whether there is a god or not does not give a final answer. Because you can always ask - who created god?
And don't try to claim otherwise without clear reasoning, based on faith alone.
I am not arguing about God here.
Re: Evolution, God made or an accident
Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:41 pm
by nemos
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:38 pm
I am not arguing about God here.
But for what?
Evolution is evolution regardless of origin.
Re: Evolution, God made or an accident
Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:45 pm
by bahman
nemos wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:41 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:38 pm
I am not arguing about God here.
But for what?
Evolution is evolution regardless of origin.
I am arguing that the changes in species can be the result of a supernatural intervention or not. That is true since science is not precise enough to rule out one in favor of another one.
Re: Evolution, God made or an accident
Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:54 pm
by nemos
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:45 pm
I am arguing that the changes in species can be the result of a supernatural intervention or not. That is true since science is not precise enough to rule out one in favor of another one.
I don't think anyone is trying to deny that. Science studies the process of evolution and not its origin. From a scientific point of view, everything obeys the laws of nature, regardless of their origin.
If I agree that everything is based on supernatural and unproven intervention,
will it change anything?
Re: Evolution, God made or an accident
Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2023 6:03 pm
by bahman
nemos wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:54 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:45 pm
I am arguing that the changes in species can be the result of a supernatural intervention or not. That is true since science is not precise enough to rule out one in favor of another one.
I don't think anyone is trying to deny that.
So you agree.
nemos wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:54 pm
Science studies the process of evolution and not its origin.
What do you mean by the origin?
nemos wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:54 pm
From a scientific point of view, everything obeys the laws of nature, regardless of their origin.
Well, I am arguing that the laws of nature are not perfect so one cannot rule out the supernatural intervention in nature.
nemos wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:54 pm
If I agree that everything is based on supernatural and unproven intervention,
will it change anything?
Of course, it changes something. There is a serious debate between theists and atheists about evolution whether it is God-made or it is the result of an accident.
Re: Evolution, God made or an accident
Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2023 6:17 pm
by nemos
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 6:03 pm
Of course, it changes something.
Sorry if I still don't understand. Because the existence of god does not change anything for me. And both theists and atheists, in my opinion, are 2 stupid rams on a narrow bridge.
Re: Evolution, God made or an accident
Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2023 6:24 pm
by bahman
nemos wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 6:17 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 6:03 pm
Of course, it changes something.
Sorry if I still don't understand. Because the existence of god does not change anything for me. And both theists and atheists, in my opinion, are 2 stupid rams on a narrow bridge.
So you are an agnostic? I am.
For what regards the existence of God and whether it changes something or not, it of course changes something. From the idea of God, some people derive objective morality, simply what we should do and what we should avoid. Don't you see all human struggles in regard to different religions?
Re: Evolution, God made or an accident
Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:54 pm
by nemos
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 6:24 pm
... Don't you see all human struggles in regard to different religions?
I don't think that religious conflicts indicate intelligence and therefore can be compared to other natural disasters ... earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, ... I can't change anything there. I'm not going to teach anyone how to live right, especially if they have to spit on my opinion, because I believe that everyone has the right to their own delusions.
Re: Evolution, God made or an accident
Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:56 pm
by bahman
nemos wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:54 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 6:24 pm
... Don't you see all human struggles in regard to different religions?
I don't think that religious conflicts indicate intelligence and therefore can be compared to other natural disasters ... earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, ... I can't change anything there. I'm not going to teach anyone how to live right, especially if they have to spit on my opinion, because I believe that everyone has the right to their own delusions.
I won't force anyone to live the way I think is correct too. I however think that I have the responsibility to tell the truth.
Re: Evolution, God made or an accident
Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2023 8:00 pm
by nemos
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:56 pm
... I however think that I have the responsibility to tell the truth.
Good for you because you know the truth. I do not.
Re: Evolution, God made or an accident
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2023 8:46 am
by Dontaskme
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 3:49 pm
You cannot disprove the existence of a supernatural being that gives shape to nature. You cannot prove it either. Evolution is not a very precise practice. Even physics is not a very precise practice as things can be manipulated in digits that are beyond the precision of physics.
You cannot
KNOW the existence of a supernatural being that gives shape to nature.
You cannot
NOT KNOW the existence of a supernatural being that gives shape to nature.
So the buck stops there.