Philosophy Now Forum

to state that people are dissatisfied with the world would
seem to be an understatement.... we are unhappy with just
about every aspect of our lives.... we are dissatisfied with the political,
the right-left argument, the religious argument.. atheist/religious,
economic.. the wealthy vs the rest of us..

wars can be seen as a sign of our dissatisfaction.....
read this website and read the many dissatisfied ''customers''
of our existence... in fact, very few are actually very happy
with our current existence... certainly no one around here...
this website is home to a negative, despondent, unhappy people....
and that is life in general right now...

but think about it.... we have the wealthiest society in history...
we have, as matter of course, wealth that only kings dreamt of, in
the ancient days of yore... I am lower middle class and I live a better
life than 99% of all human beings that has ever lived... we own two cars,
which is normal.. we have only one TV, but that is by choice, we could easily
join the rest of humanity and get a second or even a third TV...
we have one computer, but again, that is by choice...
and we live in a very safe city/neighborhood... I work about
15 minutes away.. easy drive.. we can go a month or if we stretch it,
we could go two months without a paycheck...
there is no fear of starving to death or being beaten... I have
every comfort in the world.. a pool in the courtyard...

I want for nothing... and that is why I believe I live better than
99.9% of everyone who has ever lived... and frankly so do you....

and yet, we are very dissatisfied of the way of the world...

materially, we have more than most people will ever have, in all of history....
we are wealthier than most people in history.. some kings would be shocked
at my material wealth... and I am only moderately wealthy...
house wealthy, cash poor...

so, why the wide-spread dissatisfaction with the world at large?

that lie in the area that we pay very little attention to...
our soul.... we are dissatisfied because we are no longer
paying attention to who we are and what it means to be
human.... our focus is on gaining material wealth and
not seeing what that focused done to us.. emotionally,
psychological, mentally, philosophically....

we have lost touch with who we are in search, in the search
for wealth, fame, titles, power, and material possessions....
does the search for these trinkets, really make me human?
or do I, should I actually seek out the things that really make
me human.... love, hope, charity, peace... these intangible things
are what is important, not wealth or material possessions...

we are dissatisfied because we are seeking the wrong thing...
we are trying to fulfill our external wants, instead of our
internal needs... the actual needs of human beings is biogeological,
food, water, shelter, health care, education... and the psychological
needs of human beings are just as important... being loved and loving others,
feeling esteemed, to be wanted, to feel safe and secure, a sense of belonging,
all these psychological needs are just as important as our biological needs...

and it is within our psychological needs that we are feeling insecure and
dissatisfied...if you are emotionally or psychological in need, it
doesn't matter how many houses you own or how much money you have,
you will be unhappy and dissatisfied.....and there we are today....

as is well known, I hate religions, and the concept of god... but even
that archaic belief offers us some comfort, psychologically...
to feel safe/secure, and wanted... in those terms, a belief in god,
does provide us with that.... but I hold that there are better ways
to achieve those necessary feelings...

and it is important to note, that some of the most dissatisfied people
in America are the religious... see how much they want to change America,
its values and its beliefs.... that isn't a sign of satisfaction to want to change
everything....

if you are dissatisfied with the world.. and who around here isn't,
then what is the source of your dissatisfaction? why are you unhappy?
do you even know? or is it a general dissatisfaction with everything?

you want to overcome your dissatisfaction?... the place to begin,
as always, is with Socrates and his maxims... to know thyself
and the unexamined world is not worth knowing...

let us examine the cause of our dissatisfaction and our societies
dissatisfaction... let us begin by knowing what why we are dissatisfied with
the world...... why are you dissatisfied with the world?

do you even know?

Kropotkin

Well you can start by deleting all of your social media accounts and interact with other humans, you know, in person.

LuckyR wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:30 am Well you can start by deleting all of your social media accounts and interact with other humans, you know, in person.

K: because of my job, I interact with literally hundreds of people a day...
and I only have one social media account and that is facebook and that is
because that is about the only way to keep in contact with family....
I don't think that Philosophy websites are considered to be social media
accounts, are they? so, unless you deal with a couple hundred of people
a day, I interact with far more people than you do....

Kropotkin

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 1:00 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:30 am Well you can start by deleting all of your social media accounts and interact with other humans, you know, in person.

K: because of my job, I interact with literally hundreds of people a day...
and I only have one social media account and that is facebook and that is
because that is about the only way to keep in contact with family....
I don't think that Philosophy websites are considered to be social media
accounts, are they? so, unless you deal with a couple hundred of people
a day, I interact with far more people than you do....

Kropotkin

You definitely do now, since I'm retired. But I read your commentary as universal, not personal.

I would just settle for having a conversation with somebody here who will, 1. Not make it about themselves, and 2. Actually have something to add instead of only tearing everything down.

It's like this place is Loser's Central.

Now back to the question at hand...

our dissatisfaction about the world.... as noted, we are, material,
the wealthiest nation ever....we have toys that are technically,
vastly superior to anything to what the Kings and the most powerful
kings ever had... we have wealth beyond a kings wildest imagination....

and yet, the vast majority of Americans are dissatisfied with the world,
with the nation, with our economic, social, and political policies....
I can't speak to the world dissatisfaction; I can only speak to what I see
in America...

but if the goal of existence is to be wealthy or powerful or famous,
have titles.... or have material possessions...millions of American's
have those... and especially material possessions... and yet, we
are still dissatisfied with our nation and its status....

there must be something else at work?

we have successfully fed our bodies with those material possessions
and wealthy.. but we have failed to feed our souls....
think about it.....our soul, not eternal, but in need of guidance
and information and values and a direction...we are lacking in those
things for the betterment of our soul...

I am a parent... when my daughter was young, very young, it wasn't the
material things that she sought, it was fairy tales, stories, movies
she watch over and over and over again... children want us to read them
stories and fairy tales... but why? those stories are what feed and educate
and give information about the world to her soul...
and that was the value of those stories and tales... it feed her soul
and it feeds all children soul... and that is what we are missing..
we lack food for our souls.... the stories of our youth are not enough
to feed our souls as adults...our lives are empty because we don't take
care of our soul...we don't feed it enough.. and it is discontented....
or to use another word, dissatisfied...

we have material wealth and it is not enough....
we have money and it is not enough...
we might have fame and it is not enough..
we might have power and it is not enough..
we might have titles and it is not enough...

so, what can we feed our souls that will stop, or at least slow
down our dissatisfaction?

in part, as with children, we seek to feed our souls in stories
and fiction and movies... some people read true crime stories,
and some read romance novels and some read Sci-fi... my brother
has/and read hundreds of Sci-Fi books... and that works for him...
I too have some Sci-Fi books, but just a few... I mostly get my
Sci-Fi fix from movies or TV.....

I am a sports fanatic, I watch all kinds of sports... and that is just
another good guy/bad guy thing going on... my team are the good guys
and the other team is the bad guy... this creation of a good guy/bad guy
story is part of the feeding of the human soul... it is an essential part of
the childhood stories we read so long ago.... the wicked witch is the bad
guy and the prince or princess, is the good guy... or so the story goes......

we also get our soul fed by other means, like I mentioned, sports is one
way, but watching TV and its limited diet of stories for the soul...
which includes those god awful stories of the ''housewives of New York''
or some other good guy/bad guy stories in reality TV.....

as mentioned, we feed our souls on stories like that of the bible or
the Koran.... they too are stories that feed the soul.... but in
our modern, well to be honest, our post-modern world,
stories about gods and angels and heaven and hell, don't mean
much anymore... because we have a society/a state that recognizes
that god is dead, and we have killed him....

the estimate of American's that don't believe in a god has risen
steadily over the last few years.... and I think/suspect that the
real numbers are much larger than reported... I think close
to 30% of all American's no longer believe in a god.. and it could
be much higher.... and the question becomes, how do we feed the souls
of those who no longer believe in god?

what stories can we tell that will fill that void that is missing in
the soul of the non-believers?

I don't believe and I fill my soul with my readings and my philosophy...
stories of god or salvation or heaven and hell, don't give me any
satisfaction or give my soul any support....

we are starving our soul in the midst of the most materialistic society that
has ever walked the earth...and we are dissatisfied to the core....
because we are so engaged in the emptiness, that is the materialism of
our modern world.... we are empty husk of human beings
whose soul has not been feed in a long time.... and we must return
to the questions that should be on the top of our list, what
can we do, to feed our soul, not just the body, but the soul?

Kropotkin

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 6:50 pmthere must be something else at work?

Obviously, there is something missing in your life. It is usually a religious/spiritual void that causes such yearning.

There are good reasons why God has been such an important part of human life throughout the ages. And it's not about explaining the 'why' of things. Instead, it's about allowing a greater power to handle the issues that no man can. The human intellect is simply not capable of successfully navigating the complexity of The Universe.

Search within and you'll find a path that works for you. In the end, human salvation comes in the form of acceptance.

simplicity wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 7:12 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 6:50 pmthere must be something else at work?

Obviously, there is something missing in your life. It is usually a religious/spiritual void that causes such yearning.

There are good reasons why God has been such an important part of human life throughout the ages. And it's not about explaining the 'why' of things. Instead, it's about allowing a greater power to handle the issues that no man can. The human intellect is simply not capable of successfully navigating the complexity of The Universe.

Search within and you'll find a path that works for you. In the end, human salvation comes in the form of acceptance.

K: ahhhh, the presumption of youth.. I have you pegged around 25, but you
could be very easily much younger.. and the curse of being young is to be dumb...
I am two years from retirement... a senior citizen...and as such I have seen
and done much.... and here exactly is where you are wrong.....

my ''dissatisfaction" is not in the nature that you think it is....
my own personal, outside of my having to work, and after 47 years
of working, I had hope to have already retired, but such is life...
my own personal satisfaction is quite good....when I speak out
about gays or trans or women, I am none of those...
and yet, I can hold to an ''us'' dissatisfaction....
the attempt is to send gays or trans people back into the closet..
I reject that... because such attempts brings others to being not only
dissatisfied, but society itself to being dissatisfied...the state being
dissatisfied....being dissatisfied is not about me, but about us....
the collective us that is not satisfied about the direction or actions
taken by the state/society...I am personally dissatisfied with us
as a whole...as a state and as a society....but that dissatisfaction isn't
personal.. about me personally, but about where we are as a society or
state....

I am a philosopher.. and as such, I not only take personal readings of where
I am, but where we are as a society, a state, as a civilization...
and I believe that the collective us, is dissatisfied with
what is happening to us, collectively...and that dissatisfaction is manifested
by our drug use, by our elections, by our choice of the village idiot,
IQ45... as president...our apathy to current events...and to the ''not in
my neighborhood crowd''....

look about you... do you people being happy or satisfied with the
state or society right now? I don't...and not only am I asking why,
but I am attempting to create an answer that we bring us from
dissatisfaction to being happy, satisfied....collectively, not individually...

be one who can see outside of their own little world.... be a
philosophy and attempt to, as both Socrates and Nietzsche did,
diagnose us, attempt to find a cure for what ails us...

for that is the role of a philosopher... to be a doctor to the society,
to the state.. diagnose and work out a cure for us, as a state and society....

that is all I am doing... not an individual cure, but collective cure for us...

Kropotkin

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:36 pm look about you... do you people being happy or satisfied with the
state or society right now? I don't...and not only am I asking why,
but I am attempting to create an answer that we bring us from
dissatisfaction to being happy, satisfied....collectively, not individually...

be one who can see outside of their own little world.... be a
philosophy and attempt to, as both Socrates and Nietzsche did,
diagnose us, attempt to find a cure for what ails us...

for that is the role of a philosopher... to be a doctor to the society,
to the state.. diagnose and work out a cure for us, as a state and society....

that is all I am doing... not an individual cure, but collective cure for us...

Kropotkin

Well, you are only off by about 43 years, but that's ok.

To believe you can understand the whole of society is not a job for a philosopher, but instead, a god. Perhaps the question should be, "What exactly is it that I can understand? "

You wish to diagnose and find a cure for the whole of society? Well, I have spent my adult life doing just that for individuals as a physician and I can tell you that attempting to get at the real issues [that cause most maladies] is incredibly difficult because they are multi-factorial [and not that much is known about the complexity of the human body]. Add in the difficulties of understanding and communication and you might begin to conceptualize what one is up against. And you wish to diagnose and find treatments for the interaction of billions? At least you have taken on a worthy project .

This is why the truly wise over time came to the conclusion that the best you can do is set people free [within a framework of responsibility/accountability] and allow the forces of nature to work themselves out. Believing that you can solve the problems that confront our species when no man can even truly understand the simplest of things have caused many of the great holocausts throughout history.

Allow the greatest degree of [accountable] freedom to the greatest number of people and you will have the best you can hope for our species.

So, to "Peter kropotkin" those who created 'their world', in the days when this is being written, are dissatisfied with 'their' 'own creation'.

Well, OBVIOUSLY, what 'it' is that NEEDS CHANGING is FAIRLY OBVIOUS. Well to some of 'us' anyway.

simplicity wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:12 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:36 pm look about you... do you people being happy or satisfied with the
state or society right now? I don't...and not only am I asking why,
but I am attempting to create an answer that we bring us from
dissatisfaction to being happy, satisfied....collectively, not individually...

be one who can see outside of their own little world.... be a
philosophy and attempt to, as both Socrates and Nietzsche did,
diagnose us, attempt to find a cure for what ails us...

for that is the role of a philosopher... to be a doctor to the society,
to the state.. diagnose and work out a cure for us, as a state and society....

that is all I am doing... not an individual cure, but collective cure for us...

Kropotkin

Well, you are only off by about 43 years, but that's ok.

To believe you can understand the whole of society is not a job for a philosopher, but instead, a god. Perhaps the question should be, "What exactly is it that I can understand? "

You wish to diagnose and find a cure for the whole of society? Well, I have spent my adult life doing just that for individuals as a physician and I can tell you that attempting to get at the real issues [that cause most maladies] is incredibly difficult because they are multi-factorial [and not that much is known about the complexity of the human body]. Add in the difficulties of understanding and communication and you might begin to conceptualize what one is up against. And you wish to diagnose and find treatments for the interaction of billions? At least you have taken on a worthy project .

This is why the truly wise over time came to the conclusion that the best you can do is set people free [within a framework of responsibility/accountability] and allow the forces of nature to work themselves out. Believing that you can solve the problems that confront our species when no man can even truly understand the simplest of things have caused many of the great holocausts throughout history.

Allow the greatest degree of [accountable] freedom to the greatest number of people and you will have the best you can hope for our species.

Old Soul: Innocent
Perhaps the question should be, "What exactly is it that I can understand? "
ף
("mouth" and by extension, "word," "expression," "vocalization," "speech," and "breath." )
"The path to enlightenment"
"The Taming of The Beast"
"The Usefulness of Occam's Razor"
“Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail”

Me: So it is enough for the individual human consciousness to work on their self re "dissatisfaction in our world today".

Old Soul: It has yet to be demonstrated that nature is NOT the expression of a god.
Collective Consciousness Inner work Put the Teachings Into Practice.

"Your mind will answer most questions if you learn to relax and wait for the answer."
Dissatisfaction in our world today
Translucent
Tributary Zones

Me: So the emotion of dissatisfaction causes - or can cause - a type of brain-fog

Old Soul: Consciousness Interacts
Jesus Christ Big

Remember this.
"Person 1: As always, I enjoy reading and learning things from your unique perspective...

Person 2: We are all 'voices' in each others "heads"....

Person 1: See it? Okay.

Person 2: Yes. Observe it as it is, without judgement.

Person 1: Know its thoughts? I'm not convinced of such - especially as relates to harming or oppressing our fellow human beings.

Person 2: I were the Earth Entity I would take into consideration the epoch human beings are within, and sometimes they have indeed caused harm and are oppressive and I would allow them that space to explore in the hopes they will eventually grow out of it...perhaps knowing that each and every one of them will learn eventually - either here and now or in their next phase of existence.

Knowing its thoughts shouldn't be too hard to ascertain, all things considered. They are projected through Nature as activity.
Humans have the grace to not being unnaturally oppressed or unnaturally harmed by that activity
We still have to have our wits about us though...a Mothers Kissing Slap is just around the corner for the wayward...its for our own good, you see...

Me: Yes. Perhaps it isn't a case of being "dissatisfied" of even "satisfied" with life's experience...

Old Soul: Although there are opposite sides to spectra, all elements combined form a whole.

Spiritual practice
That Is A Good Question
"Why do people have different personalities?"
"What Is The Point?"
Children of The Light
Waking
"Some days there won't be a song in your heart. Sing anyways."
This Is Part Of The Job
Sober journey into self-realization
"Perhaps it isn't a case of being "dissatisfied" of even "satisfied" with life's experience... "
"May all your madventures be fun.
Interesting Data"
"Starve The Distractions Feed The Focus"
Variety of Expression