Philosophy Now Forum

as I research eastern philosophy, it has gotten me to thinking...

Ok, we do as the Buddha ask, we free ourselves of our desires..
we become, as the Buddha ask, empty people..
for that is the goal... to empty ourselves of our ego, to empty
ourselves of rational thought, to become one with Brahman....
empty ourselves of everything that blocks this goal of becoming....
and now what?

we are not negative, we are not positive, we just are...
and nothing more...

and looking at this, people have seen the emptiness of this place..
of enlightenment.... so, they create a ''next step'' in which
the enlighten one, the one who has found himself with nothing
but oneness... needs to have a goal, of some sort... because
otherwise.. what happens after, after one has become enlightened?

so, they say that the Buddha created the rules to help others become
enlightened.... just like he did..... and this doesn't end until
everyone, everyone has become enlightened.... in which we no
longer get reborn.... we no longer suffer... for that is the point,
to escape suffering... but if we are not suffering, what exactly
are we doing? certainly not living.... for living life requires suffering...
we are born, we get old, we get diseases and finally we die....
and if we are not doing that, then we are not alive...

and in the final analysis, as Buddhism, as so constructed,
designed to escape suffering, really leads us to something else...

nihilism.... nihilism, as I have defined it is.....
to destroy human beings and their values..... and this is exactly
what Buddhism does... after we are empty of our values and emptied
of desires, and emptied of wants and needs, what is left?
ok, we want nothing, we need nothing, we desire nothing...
everything has been flattened... now what?

there really doesn't seem to be a reason for living if, if
we truly accept Buddhism and achieve its final goal..
and that is nihilism....

carried to its logical conclusion, Buddhism offers us,
what exactly?

we have freed ourselves of our emotions, our rationality, our desires,
any attempt at a quest, we have reached the final goal and we
are left with.... nothing.... and what happens if everyone is
left with nothing? this is no different than the Christian goal...
in which the only point is to reach heaven and sit at god's
right hand.... ok, now what? the Christian goal of achieving
heaven isn't that different from the Buddhist goal...
the methods are very similar...to remove the ''vices'' of existence....
and leaving what exactly?

nothing...... and that means Christianity is nothing more than
just another version of nihilism... and as most religions offer us
nothing more than salvation, with salvation being saved from
something, is that idea of salvation really nothing more
than just another recipe for nihilism? I would venture a guess
that seeking salvation is really just escaping life and that
is nihilism......

if all roads led to nihilism.... then perhaps we might want to try
other roads......roads that don't lead to salvation and redemption
and enlightenment...... for those roads are the path to nihilism....

so, what is left? what is the next step? Now what?

Kropotkin

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:06 pm as I research eastern philosophy, it has gotten me to thinking...

Ok, we do as the Buddha ask, we free ourselves of our desires..
we become, as the Buddha ask, empty people..
for that is the goal... to empty ourselves of our ego, to empty
ourselves of rational thought, to become one with Brahman....
empty ourselves of everything that blocks this goal of becoming....
and now what?

Not exactly. We free ourselves from attachment to desire. That one word, attachment, is a huge distinction, like the difference between lightning and lightning bug. Everyone has desires, ego, rational thought, passion! We are human. Attachment to desire causes the suffering, attachment to anything causes suffering ranging from annoyance to trauma. Attachment to the suffering is what one loses, and it falls away without effort.

The lungs breathe, the heart beats, the blood flows, the brain thinks. It's easy to not get intellectually attached to the first three. Thoughts, however, get mistaken as permanent and invite attachment in the form of self-concept, concept being a thought.

Emptiness references the realm of infinite potentiality in which there is no thought to condition reality.

To be one with Brahman (Brahmacharya) is experienced as equanimity (the cause of unconditional love), equanimity in which bliss is found in consciousness and not just in particular experiences.

for those roads are the path to nihilism....

For the sense of self, individual self. All seeking paths lead to nihilism.

Why are you unhappy? Because 99.9 percent of everything you think, and of everything you do, is for yourself—and there isn't one.


On the flip side, no self means the exact same equal and opposite state, the stateless state. And we are all caught up in this same state every single one of us of which there is simply no escape. Why, because who would escape it?



Given that the nature of reality is non-dual, there can be no experiential solution to existential angst.

Since all objects/experiences are inherently transitory, no object – including the experience of a thought-free state – can offer one complete fulfillment.

Moreover, since the fundamental cause of suffering is ignorance of one’s true nature, the only solution is knowledge.

But since the instrument of knowledge is the mind, no knowledge can be gained by the seeker if the mind is destroyed or thought eradicated.

Finally, because silence, which is the state implied by a thought-free mind, is not opposed to ignorance — no experience of silence will remove one’s ignorance and magically replace it with the self-knowledge that sets one free.

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:06 pm if all roads led to nihilism.... then perhaps we might want to try
other roads......roads that don't lead to salvation and redemption
and enlightenment...... for those roads are the path to nihilism....

so, what is left? what is the next step? Now what?

Interesting topic! The way I look at it, religions depend on 'what comes after'. Survive this 'inferior state' to get to what comes after... which actually amounts to: nonsense or nothing. What if this present moment... in this form... is the ecstatic dance of being... not to be transcended... but rather, to be embraced? There is no destination more important than this moment. Recognizing that may be a divine realization that reveals clarity without the stories.

I think it is an illusion to think that we're not where we're supposed to be. And rather than trying to figure out where we're supposed to be or go, it seems more reasonable to recognize the fullness of where we are. The idea of going anywhere else is caught up in concepts of time and space. And countless stories can be built around that... luring us away from noticing that everything divine is contained in this present point/moment of which we exist and are 'aware/experiencing'.

Why not dance wherever we are... or crawl if we must... with passion and gratitude. Religions seek to control and promise and threaten and divide and resist -- which is not at all (to my view) divine! There is no space or distance or separation for the divine.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 6:54 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:06 pm if all roads led to nihilism.... then perhaps we might want to try
other roads......roads that don't lead to salvation and redemption
and enlightenment...... for those roads are the path to nihilism....

so, what is left? what is the next step? Now what?

Interesting topic! The way I look at it, religions depend on 'what comes after'. Survive this 'inferior state' to get to what comes after... which actually amounts to: nonsense or nothing. What if this present moment... in this form... is the ecstatic dance of being... not to be transcended... but rather, to be embraced? There is no destination more important than this moment. Recognizing that may be a divine realization that reveals clarity without the stories.

Come on now, Lacewing, should this child...



..."embrace and feel ecstatic" about her situation?

Or how about these already viciously raped women and children of My Lai,...



...should they have "embraced and felt ecstatic" about the fact that they were a few seconds away from having their bodies torn to pieces by the machine guns wielded by American soldiers?

Or how about these children,...



...who were slaughtered by American drones? Should their parents have "embraced the ecstatic dance" of the moment when the missiles snuffed-out the lives of their precious little ones?

I appreciate your positive outlook, but considering the fact that there are many people in this world whose lives aren't quite as rosy as yours (as noted above),...

...coupled with the fact that you really don't have the slightest clue as to what truly awaits us following the death of the body,...

...then for the life of me, I cannot understand how you manage to convince yourself that you are being helpful to those people by promulgating a philosophy that attempts to take away their hope in the existence of a more pleasant afterlife.

The point is that -- even if it's a delusion -- why not let those who are comforted by such beliefs, hang on to those beliefs?
_______

seeds wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 10:59 pm Come on now, Lacewing, should this child...

Are you seriously not able to think beyond this sort of response? Save your dramatic and horrific photos for discussions about God. Where is God while all of this is going on? Hmm?

Evidently, from your perspective, there is NO divine reason for gratitude, passion, embracing, ecstatic dancing. We are nothing more than these images... and we must trudge through it... poor wretches that we are... never seeing anything more until we die and go to Heaven with the God who watches all of this and does nothing. Got it!

From my perspective, there's more than this to become aware of (as I expressed).