Philosophy Now Forum

as is known, there is a bloody war going on between Israel and
Hamas... and here is my take....

the fact is that one could easily predict this war... with both side,
not just one side or the other, but both sides hold to beliefs that
made this recent conflict inevitable but also to be continued..

both side hold to the, my way or the highway theory of existence...
both sides hold to a religious fanaticism that they are right...
and to admit, even privately that the other side, MIGHT, might
have a point is sacrilegious... they have left the other side with
no room to negotiate or bend...and just as importantly, they
have left themselves with no room to negotiate or bend...

it is quite clear that other parties are involved, most likely Iran or Saudi Arabia...
because both of them hold to fanatical ideas.....now one might say, yep, it
is Muslim vs Jews.. with the Jews playing the ''good'' guy role... but the fact is,
no one comes into this with their hands clear of blood...both sides are guilty...
and both side claim to be on the side of righteous...
and that belief is why we still haven't found a solution to the Middle Eastern
problem...a problem that has existed for decades... and the ''blame game''
of the politicians isn't going to solve this problem..
and the inability of both sides to allow room to create solutions, means
that the wars will go on until both sides back up and create room for
possible solutions.... until both sides admit that other side has a right
to existence...and that the belief that human beings, regardless of
being Muslim or Jewish or atheist or Christian, have the right to
having their faith practiced, freely and openly with no restrictions...
and that being human is enough to treat everyone equally..
until justice/equality is practice by both sides, the wars will go on...

there is no right or wrong here... just the dead...


Kropotkin

now the question becomes, how do we end the endless strife
and suffering that has been the Middle East for decades?

or said differently, what knowledge can we use that will allow us to
end the endless wars of the Middle East?

the obvious point is that the religious solutions to these ongoing wars,
has failed... there is no religious solution that will end these wars...
religions cannot solve religious warfare...

let us take a look into history and see one possible solution...
the centuries long wars between Catholicism and the
Protestants... and how did those wars end? simply by the fact
that everyone was worn out and exhausted by the ongoing wars...
if you cannot kill the other side and you cannot convert them,
then you have no other choice but to coexist with them....

and the solution to the ongoing Catholic/ protestant wars was
not religious but political...and practical... as the 100-year war proved,
that ongoing strife will just leave everyone devastated and broke..
no one wins... and everyone loses...when two sides engage in endless conflict...

tell me, what is the end game of Hamas? what can they expect to get out of this?
nothing... but death and devastation to the region... and what might the
end game of the Israelis get out of totally destroying Gaza?
nothing.. just death and destruction to the region... and who wins?
certainly not Israel and certainly not Hamas or the Palestinians...

there is no point, reason or goal in this war... and its continuation solves
nothing... for violence only creates more violence which creates more
violence and that creates more violence.... and until everyone gets
off their high horse and understands that, nothing will happen but
death and devastation....

and in this war, as with all other wars, who exactly speaks for the victims?

finding "justice" for the victims only leads to more and more victims....

we don't need to find justice for the victims, we need to find justice
and equality for the living....

Kropotkin

No wonder philosophy (i.e. thinking about stuff) died. What a bunch of degenerate, irrelevant old farts we have on here.

vegetariantaxidermy:
No wonder philosophy (i.e. thinking about stuff) died. What a bunch of degenerate, irrelevant old farts we have on here.

K: and of course, you are the only one with answers?
hasn't it ever occurred to you that your very beliefs are part of the
problem, and not part of the solution.... because as far as I can tell,
all you offer us is insults and hate.... or is it possible that the solution
to this war, and all the other wars can come from a reevaluation of
values... what is peace and what is the best way to find it?
and remove that which has continued the war for decades and you
are left with?

Kropotkin

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 9:40 pm vegetariantaxidermy:
No wonder philosophy (i.e. thinking about stuff) died. What a bunch of degenerate, irrelevant old farts we have on here.

K: and of course, you are the only one with answers?
hasn't it ever occurred to you that your very beliefs are part of the
problem, and not part of the solution.... because as far as I can tell,
all you offer us is insults and hate.... or is it possible that the solution
to this war, and all the other wars can come from a reevaluation of
values... what is peace and what is the best way to find it?
and remove that which has continued the war for decades and you
are left with?

Kropotkin

The fact that you are even asking me to provide a solution speaks for itself. We are all fucked.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 9:46 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 9:40 pm vegetariantaxidermy:
No wonder philosophy (i.e. thinking about stuff) died. What a bunch of degenerate, irrelevant old farts we have on here.

K: and of course, you are the only one with answers?
hasn't it ever occurred to you that your very beliefs are part of the
problem, and not part of the solution.... because as far as I can tell,
all you offer us is insults and hate.... or is it possible that the solution
to this war, and all the other wars can come from a reevaluation of
values... what is peace and what is the best way to find it?
and remove that which has continued the war for decades and you
are left with?

Kropotkin

The fact that you are even asking me to provide a solution speaks for itself. We are all fucked.

K: NO, I am asking you to think.. what possible solutions are there to this
situation? I am asking you to reevaluate your own beliefs to seek out
possible solutions... you are thinking about this the wrong way...
this is a learning experience.. as to how people who are inflexible
and unwilling to change, face the same problems over and over again...
until both sides change their thinking, we shall have ever lasting war...
so, what thoughts or beliefs can end this cycle of war? that I am always
right? is that thought going to end the cycle of war?
or perhaps one might venture an unpopular opinion that the other
guy might have a point... and then what? what if, what if I am wrong?
and the path to peace begins here... with doubt as to the certainty
of belief.. there lies the road of peace.. and until we have some doubt,
we are going to have war after war after war... doubt is one road to
peace... what is another road?

Kropotkin