Philosophy Now Forum

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2023 5:30 pm**

it has been said that one of the main paths of existence is
to be happy and avoid suffering...
seek out what makes you happy and avoid that which cause you to suffer...
that has been a mainstay of human life for thousands of years...
and entire philosophies have been devoted to this seeking out
happiness and avoiding suffering...

I read a story one time.. about a King... who had been king for
40 years... one day, he decided to count out the number of
days of happiness he had in those 40 years.... and he counted
out 12 days of happiness in those 40 years... days of happiness
are as rare as days of winning the lottery... and suffering,
sometimes it feels like all our days are full of suffering...
non-stop and endless suffering....

but it seems to me, with my very few days of happiness, and many
days of suffering, that both happiness and suffering are really just
choices we make...Nietzsche once wrote that all experiences are
really just learning experiences... we can learn from every single experience
that we have...life is just example after example of learning from
our experiences... and we can learn from our happiness as much
as we can learn from our suffering...seek out happiness if you want,
but I would rather learn from my experiences...

one of the interesting things that happen as we age is that our definition
of happiness changes... once, happiness was sitting in a bar and drinking
with friends or going to a baseball game or wondering about book stores...
today, not so much.. I am quite happy to stay at home and do this..
be on philosophy websites... or read or taking a nap.... I am a homebody
today... and one gets older, the more one turns into a homebody...
I don't pay any attention to current ''pop'' culture or know who is
on the top of the charts musically, (hate rap) and I am quite
happy not to have that information... it isn't necessary for me to know
to make me happy...I work, but even leaving the house to go to work
makes me angry... but I like to eat, so there is that...
work has become this really pointless exercise of nonsense...
and if I never work another day of my life, I would be thrilled...
but after 47 years of working, I am pretty much done with work...
I have a rough timetable of retirement, roughly around December
2025 or so... that would make me 66 years and ten months old..
the time that I can get my full retirement benefits from social security...
and work to me anyway is just a long term path of suffering... and more
suffering and then, some more suffering... but it is, unfortunately, a necessary
evil...and so I suffer.. every single day.... and that suffering makes me wiser
and increases my depth of being a human being

Kropotkin

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2023 6:37 pm**

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 5:30 pm we can learn from our happiness as much
as we can learn from our suffering...seek out happiness if you want,
but I would rather learn from my experiences...

I think that every single moment is an opportunity to discover and practice ways of self-mastery. The things that I struggle with may seem insurmountable at times -- they may consume me -- but in actuality, I'm allowing that, for whatever reasons. Maybe I want an excuse to 'act out' or to vent rage. It seems to help when I allow myself to do that, yet remain aware that I also have the capability to choose otherwise. I don't have to get locked into a 'reality of resistance'. I can practice and choose to feel calm in the face of chaos. I can genuinely laugh at absurd or frustrating circumstances. I can love with abandon. It's all there... all the possibilities... all the choices of how to work/dance with everything. There are not set outcomes: this = that. And it's incredibly empowering to transform the habitual responses into mindful responses... and start playing with them!

Perhaps such mastery is one of the main purposes of this human life... or, at least, it's a good use of this life, and makes it more enjoyable. Rather than 'what is this world doing to us'... what are we doing with this world? Yes?

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:05 pm**

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 6:37 pm
Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 5:30 pm we can learn from our happiness as much
as we can learn from our suffering...seek out happiness if you want,
but I would rather learn from my experiences...
I think that every single moment is an opportunity to discover and practice ways of self-mastery. The things that I struggle with may seem insurmountable at times -- they may consume me -- but in actuality, I'm allowing that, for whatever reasons. Maybe I want an excuse to 'act out' or to vent rage. It seems to help when I allow myself to do that, yet remain aware that I also have the capability to choose otherwise. I don't have to get locked into a 'reality of resistance'. I can practice and choose to feel calm in the face of chaos. I can genuinely laugh at absurd or frustrating circumstances. I can love with abandon. It's all there... all the possibilities... all the choices of how to work/dance with everything. There are not set outcomes: this = that. And it's incredibly empowering to transform the habitual responses into mindful responses... and start playing with them!

Perhaps such mastery is one of the main purposes of this human life... or, at least, it's a good use of this life, and makes it more enjoyable. Rather than 'what is this world doing to us'... what are we doing with this world? Yes?

K: yes, but I am not sure about this idea of ''self-mastery'' it may be the
anarchist in me, but I am not a fan of self-mastery...
it could be that the path may very well come from a self-mastery of
my thoughts and action... or not? the next step of becoming human
may well be in our own self-mastery of ourselves.. I am not saying no,
I am saying, I am not so sure....but having some control over
our passions and beliefs isn't such a bad thing...

Kropotkin

Posted: **Fri Sep 29, 2023 6:48 am**

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 5:30 pm it has been said that one of the main paths of existence is
to be happy and avoid suffering...
seek out what makes you happy and avoid that which cause you to suffer...
that has been a mainstay of human life for thousands of years...
and entire philosophies have been devoted to this seeking out
happiness and avoiding suffering...

I read a story one time.. about a King... who had been king for
40 years... one day, he decided to count out the number of
days of happiness he had in those 40 years.... and he counted
out 12 days of happiness in those 40 years... days of happiness
are as rare as days of winning the lottery... and suffering,
sometimes it feels like all our days are full of suffering...
non-stop and endless suffering....

but it seems to me, with my very few days of happiness, and many
days of suffering, that both happiness and suffering are really just
choices we make...Nietzsche once wrote that all experiences are
really just learning experiences... we can learn from every single experience
that we have...life is just example after example of learning from
our experiences... and we can learn from our happiness as much
as we can learn from our suffering...seek out happiness if you want,
but I would rather learn from my experiences...

one of the interesting things that happen as we age is that our definition
of happiness changes... once, happiness was sitting in a bar and drinking
with friends or going to a baseball game or wondering about book stores...
today, not so much.. I am quite happy to stay at home and do this..
be on philosophy websites... or read or taking a nap.... I am a homebody
today... and one gets older, the more one turns into a homebody...
I don't pay any attention to current ''pop'' culture or know who is
on the top of the charts musically, (hate rap) and I am quite
happy not to have that information... it isn't necessary for me to know
to make me happy...I work, but even leaving the house to go to work
makes me angry... but I like to eat, so there is that...
work has become this really pointless exercise of nonsense...
and if I never work another day of my life, I would be thrilled...
but after 47 years of working, I am pretty much done with work...
I have a rough timetable of retirement, roughly around December
2025 or so... that would make me 66 years and ten months old..
the time that I can get my full retirement benefits from social security...
and work to me anyway is just a long term path of suffering... and more
suffering and then, some more suffering... but it is, unfortunately, a necessary
evil...and so I suffer.. every single day.... and that suffering makes me wiser
and increases my depth of being a human being

Kropotkin

Kudos to you on getting so close to a stable retirement! I had it easy in the sense that I loved my work, which I realize is not common. However, if the meaninglessness of work is getting you down, either reconcile yourself to the fact that you're only working to make enough money to retire, and look outside of work for your fulfillment and joy, so you can experience joy every day (just, perhaps not at work) or identify an aspect of your work, say personal interactions with customers or colleagues, that can be fulfilling and appreciated every work day.

Posted: **Fri Sep 29, 2023 7:26 am**

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:05 pm I am not a fan of self-mastery...

Why? Why wouldn't you want to have more mastery over the thing that creates the majority of your experience?

Posted: **Fri Sep 29, 2023 7:37 am**

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 5:30 pm it has been said that one of the main paths of existence is
to be happy and avoid suffering...
seek out what makes you happy and avoid that which cause you to suffer...
that has been a mainstay of human life for thousands of years...
and entire philosophies have been devoted to this seeking out
happiness and avoiding suffering...

We need to consider with greater depth and reflective thinking.

Pain and Pleasure are two critical functions within human nature that is critical to facilitate survival.
The point is we need to put both within a continuum from low [0.1] to high [99.9].
The corresponding emotions to pain and pleasure is sufferings and happiness which both must be considered in the above range from high to low.

Since all the above are critical for survival we cannot get rid of one or both.
Rather we should avoid and get rid of pains and sufferings that low but persistent and high that occur intermittently or lasting.
For pleasure and happiness we should avoid that there are high and optimize the lower range of happiness with equanimity.

As for the emotion of sufferings [sadness, etc.] and happiness humans should exercise mindfulness and control such as advocated by Aristotle for anger,

"Anyone can become angry - that is easy, but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree and at the right time, and for the right purpose, and in the right way that is not within everyone's power and that is not easy."

The other is the Buddhist's Middle-Way; at whatever the level always seek the middle-way, i.e. strive one's best to be in control.
Re control,
if one failed to plan for control, then one is planning to fail in control.

Philosophy Now Forum

the desire to seek out happiness avoid suffering

the desire to seek out happiness avoid suffering

Re: the desire to seek out happiness avoid suffering

Re: the desire to seek out happiness avoid suffering

Re: the desire to seek out happiness avoid suffering

Re: the desire to seek out happiness avoid suffering

Re: the desire to seek out happiness avoid suffering