Philosophy Now Forum

Is ART created by AI, is that still ART, or is it something else?

Kropotkin

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 5:17 pm Is ART created by AI, is that still ART, or is it something else?

Kropotkin

Well to my way of thinking, since art is "in the eye of the beholder", if the audience of the purported "art" determines it has artistic merit, then it is art. Who's the artist? The programmer who created the AI plus the user who asked the program to make it. "Influences" of the artist are the pieces of existing art that the program "studied" in order to mimic human art.

many comments on the ''heaviness of existence" all around,
including on this site... but what a possible cure for the
heaviness of existence that afflicts us today?

Might I offer up something new that is old, the act of
creation... ART....turn that heaviness into the lightness of
ART... become something new and learn a POV that allows
one to create... ART...

Kropotkin

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 5:17 pm Is ART created by AI, is that still ART, or is it something else?

Kropotkin

Define "art", and you will answer your question.

In the many, many theories about ART, we have the Marxist theory
in which ART is not pretty but is utilitarian.. designed to be useful
or practical rather than attractive... and we have the ''ART FOR ARTS SAKE"
or the modern version of ART, ART to make money...

but the use of ART as a respite from the world, is lost..
the use of ART to light the way in a dark world, that is lost....
ART doesn't have to show us a truth or be a replica of the truth,
it can just be something that is joyful and happy to exist....

everything is so heavy and dark today...
why can't the world just be light, in both senses of the word,
and we can fight that light, both senses, in ART....
why does everything have to be so melodramatic?

or people have been known to go the other way with it...
ignore the evil in the world and become engaged with pretending
that world, the world in which evil exists, doesn't exists....
by taking drugs, or drinking or buy stuff on Amazon or
engage in such TV shows as the "Real housewives" of
something... as my wife does.. right now, it is the housewives of orange county...
and that is good, but at times, we have to come back to the world, to see,
to have a POV that evil, that evil does exist and we must fight evil anyway
we can...and that path is the path of moderation.. in which we can
see evil and yet, we can still occasionally, engage with the lightness
of existence.... we don't have to exists in either house forever....
what master do you serve? the heaviness of existence or the lightness
of being? for once, you can serve both, but in moderation...

Kropotkin

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 5:17 pm Is ART created by AI, is that still ART, or is it something else?

Kropotkin

¯\_(*_*)_/¯

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 6:18 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 5:17 pm Is ART created by AI, is that still ART, or is it something else?

Kropotkin

Define "art", and you will answer your question.

K: a couple of definitions of ART:

ART: Something that is created with imagination and skill
and that is beautiful or that expresses important ideas or
feelings...

another definition

ART: Something that stimulates an individual's thoughts, emotions,
beliefs, or ideas through the senses..

And the creation of ART goes back to the very beginning of human
existence... cave man 40,000 years ago, created ART on the walls
of caves...ART dates before having dogs, before us having the
wheel, ART before us having, so some think, language....
and perhaps, ART is before us having fire...

we cannot think about being human without some thought as to the role
and place of ART in human life...

and again, perhaps the reason for our current malaise in human affairs
is due to the loss of ART in modern life.. you want to save the human race,
begin by making ART back into being a primary role in human existence...

Kropotkin

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 6:58 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 6:18 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 5:17 pm Is ART created by AI, is that still ART, or is it something else?

Kropotkin

Define "art", and you will answer your question.

K: a couple of definitions of ART:

ART: Something that is created with imagination and skill
and that is beautiful or that expresses important ideas or
feelings...

another definition

ART: Something that stimulates an individual's thoughts, emotions,
beliefs, or ideas through the senses..

And the creation of ART goes back to the very beginning of human
existence... cave man 40,000 years ago, created ART on the walls
of caves...ART dates before having dogs, before us having the
wheel, ART before us having, so some think, language....
and perhaps, ART is before us having fire...

we cannot think about being human without some thought as to the role
and place of ART in human life...

and again, perhaps the reason for our current malaise in human affairs
is due to the loss of ART in modern life.. you want to save the human race,
begin by making ART back into being a primary role in human existence...

Kropotkin

But does the essence of art come from its creator, or is it about the effect it has on the viewer, regardless of how it came into existence? There are some things that are purely a matter of opinion, and I don't think there is anything that comes into this category more squarely than art.

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 7:20 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 6:58 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 6:18 pm

Define "art", and you will answer your question.

K: a couple of definitions of ART:

ART: Something that is created with imagination and skill
and that is beautiful or that expresses important ideas or
feelings...

another definition

ART: Something that stimulates an individual's thoughts, emotions,
beliefs, or ideas through the senses..

And the creation of ART goes back to the very beginning of human
existence... cave man 40,000 years ago, created ART on the walls
of caves...ART dates before having dogs, before us having the
wheel, ART before us having, so some think, language....
and perhaps, ART is before us having fire...

we cannot think about being human without some thought as to the role
and place of ART in human life...

and again, perhaps the reason for our current malaise in human affairs
is due to the loss of ART in modern life.. you want to save the human race,
begin by making ART back into being a primary role in human existence...

Kropotkin

But does the essence of art come from its creator, or is it about the effect it has on the viewer, regardless of how it came into existence? There are some things that are purely a matter of opinion, and I don't think there is anything that comes into this category more squarely than art.

K: but does ART have value for the creator or the viewer? YES...
I create something in ART and I am moved by something in ART..
and both have value... in the creation of ART, I,
(for lack of a better word, transform) the heaviness of existence into
something bearable, something that has turned such heaviness into
something lighter, the weight of existence may not be gone, but
it no longer is a weight that is unbearable on my existence...I have
transformed it into something lighter...or another word we can use
"transfiguration" the complete change of form or appearance into
something more beautiful or spiritual state... and that is the
beauty of ART... it changes its weight into a change of form
or appearance.. it become lighter... turning earth into spirit...
and spirit doesn't have to be about god or religion.... it can
simple be the turning of the weight of existence into something
lighter and more bearable... and isn't that the definition of
spiritual... turning heaviness into lightness....

and for the viewer, we see this transformation of heaviness into
lightness and we feel more spiritual... even if that has nothing to do
with god or religion or finding heaven.......we are transformed by
ART and that is good.... it has transformed human beings for
over 40,000 years.. and it will continue to transform human beings
as long as human beings are alive...

one of the problems, one of many, is that we only depend on two things
as human beings, one is thought/rationality and we depend on
emotions/feeling... but what if there is a third thing and that is
imagination....what if, what if we engaged in imagination.. along
with mind and emotions? for imagination is that third thing of
human existence that we rely on, depend on... and that is
what has changed in my lifetime...we had three forms of existence,
mind/rationality, emotions/feelings and we had imagination...
who speaks of imagination any more? to imagine a different world,
or possible imagine a better world? who does that anymore?

bring back ART is to bring back imagination into the world....
as they say, try it, you might like..

Kropotkin

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 7:20 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 6:58 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 6:18 pm

Define "art", and you will answer your question.

K: a couple of definitions of ART:

ART: Something that is created with imagination and skill
and that is beautiful or that expresses important ideas or
feelings...

another definition

ART: Something that stimulates an individual's thoughts, emotions,
beliefs, or ideas through the senses..

And the creation of ART goes back to the very beginning of human
existence... cave man 40,000 years ago, created ART on the walls
of caves...ART dates before having dogs, before us having the
wheel, ART before us having, so some think, language....
and perhaps, ART is before us having fire...

we cannot think about being human without some thought as to the role
and place of ART in human life...

and again, perhaps the reason for our current malaise in human affairs
is due to the loss of ART in modern life.. you want to save the human race,
begin by making ART back into being a primary role in human existence...

Kropotkin

But does the essence of art come from its creator, or is it about the effect it has on the viewer, regardless of how it came into existence? There are some things that are purely a matter of opinion, and I don't think there is anything that comes into this category more squarely than art.

Agreed. IMO artness is given by the audience, not the artist.

If an "artist" tries to copy the Mona Lisa he's an artisan, not an artist. However if an unsuspecting art lover is moved by his copy, it is "art" to him. To an art forgery expert, it isn't art, it's a crass copy.

Har: But does the essence of art come from its creator, or is it about the effect it has on the viewer, regardless of how it came into existence? There are some things that are purely a matter of opinion, and I don't think there is anything that comes into this category more squarely than art.

LuckyR: Agreed. IMO artness is given by the audience, not the artist.

If an "artist" tries to copy the Mona Lisa he's an artisan, not an artist. However if an unsuspecting art lover is moved by his copy, it is "art" to him. To an art forgery expert, it isn't art, it's a crass copy.


K: ahhh, so ART is democracy in action.... it requires enough people to agree
with it, to become ART... so, majority rules in ART....

Kropotkin

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 8:36 pm
LuckyR: Agreed. IMO artness is given by the audience, not the artist.

If an "artist" tries to copy the Mona Lisa he's an artisan, not an artist. However if an unsuspecting art lover is moved by his copy, it is "art" to him. To an art forgery expert, it isn't art, it's a crass copy.


K: ahhh, so ART is democracy in action.... it requires enough people to agree
with it, to become ART... so, majority rules in ART....

Kropotkin

Not quite. The Mona Lisa forgery either exists (or doesn't exist) as "art" solely within the minds of it's audience, not within itself. That is, artness isn't a property within pieces, it exists inter-subjectively, not objectively.