Philosophy Now Forum

Posted: **Sun Aug 13, 2023 3:50 pm**

this is a thread I have been meaning to write for while, but
haven't gotten around to...

the one false theory that bugs me the most is this:

time is money....

and no... I can't begin to explain how wrong this is...

money is a fake invention that has no basis in the world outside
of what we give it... whereas time, time is real... time is
far more connected to space than money...

and the reason I think that people connect time and money, is
that they have a false conception of both... the only reason that
time might equal money is that we are supposed to, as per the
theory of capitalism, we are supposed to spend our time in
the act of production or working or consuming...
and any time away from producing or working or consuming,
is wasted time.. at least according to capitalists who benefit
the most from this false idea...
time spent away from production or working or consuming,
is time badly spent...at least according to capitalism....
if we aren't working, then it is costing us money.. we aren't receiving
our wages or our profits... and that is what counts... getting money in
terms of profits or wages... and nothing else matters... thus we
can make the false assumption that time equals money....

given a choice between time or money, one would be wise to pick time..
every single time....for once a moment is lost, it is lost forever,
whereas money is easily replaceable...indeed, money comes and goes
from our lives, quite often and quickly.... there is nothing permanent
about money.. it is temporary... whereas we live in time, all our lives...

given a choice between stopping and smelling the roses or
or working to making money..... for me, that isn't even a choice...
for taking the time to see what is around us, has far more value
than any amount of money... to benefit the soul isn't about
money, but about taking the time to see joy and beauty
and love.... my soul gets a great deal of benefit from
smelling the roses, far more than working my 8 hours...

to show us another example of time over money... falling in love...
that is, in just about every example, fiscally irresponsible...
to waste time falling in love cost us money, effort, time...
there is no good fiscal argument for seeking love..
it is expensive and has no financial payoff..
and yet, love give us something that money will never give us...
which is meaning and a goal that makes life worth living for...
we can find the meaning of life in love but we can't find
the meaning of life in money...

and we can find meaning in seeking out beauty and hope and
love and all those things that lay outside of just making money or
spending money.... truth is that we are most human when
we are not seeking out money or profits.. but we are most
human when we do things that has nothing to do with profits/money...
such as the act of creating.. making music or painting or even just
enjoying the sunset.. these things define us a human in a way
that money cannot...

at the end of my days... will I regret making very little money or
will I regret not loving enough? I think the answer to that is quite
clear... I will regret not loving enough or not making the right
choices, or not smelling the roses... but will I regret
any monetary choices? I seriously doubt it...
at the end of my life and you think I will regret not
buying that brand new car, a Porshe?..... or will I regret not
spending more time on my wife or my daughter... I think the answer is clear....

Kropotkin

Posted: **Sun Aug 13, 2023 4:01 pm**

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 3:50 pm this is a thread I have been meaning to write for while, but
haven't gotten around to...

the one false theory that bugs me the most is this:

time is money....

and no... I can't begin to explain how wrong this is...

Besides 'you', did ANY one "else" ASK?

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 3:50 pm money is a fake invention that has no basis in the world outside
of what we give it...

I suggest that if you REALLY want to talk ABOUT a 'false theory that 'you', and some "others", BELIEVE IN, then 'you' do NOT START 'your' very FIRST EXPLAINING sentence WITH A False theory, which 'you' BELIEVE IN, itself.

I will NOT read the rest, for now, as I have just SAID ENOUGH, ALREADY.

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 3:50 pm whereas time, time is real... time is
far more connected to space than money...

and the reason I think that people connect time and money, is
that they have a false conception of both... the only reason that
time might equal money is that we are supposed to, as per the
theory of capitalism, we are supposed to spend our time in
the act of production or working or consuming...
and any time away from producing or working or consuming,
is wasted time.. at least according to capitalists who benefit
the most from this false idea...
time spent away from production or working or consuming,
is time badly spent...at least according to capitalism....
if we aren't working, then it is costing us money.. we aren't receiving
our wages or our profits... and that is what counts... getting money in
terms of profits or wages... and nothing else matters... thus we
can make the false assumption that time equals money....

given a choice between time or money, one would be wise to pick time..
every single time....for once a moment is lost, it is lost forever,
whereas money is easily replaceable...indeed, money comes and goes
from our lives, quite often and quickly.... there is nothing permanent
about money.. it is temporary... whereas we live in time, all our lives...

given a choice between stopping and smelling the roses or
or working to making money..... for me, that isn't even a choice...
for taking the time to see what is around us, has far more value
than any amount of money... to benefit the soul isn't about
money, but about taking the time to see joy and beauty
and love.... my soul gets a great deal of benefit from
smelling the roses, far more than working my 8 hours...

to show us another example of time over money... falling in love...
that is, in just about every example, fiscally irresponsible...
to waste time falling in love cost us money, effort, time...
there is no good fiscal argument for seeking love..
it is expensive and has no financial payoff..
and yet, love give us something that money will never give us...
which is meaning and a goal that makes life worth living for...
we can find the meaning of life in love but we can't find
the meaning of life in money...

and we can find meaning in seeking out beauty and hope and
love and all those things that lay outside of just making money or
spending money.... truth is that we are most human when
we are not seeking out money or profits.. but we are most
human when we do things that has nothing to do with profits/money...
such as the act of creating.. making music or painting or even just
enjoying the sunset.. these things define us a human in a way
that money cannot...

at the end of my days... will I regret making very little money or
will I regret not loving enough? I think the answer to that is quite
clear... I will regret not loving enough or not making the right
choices, or not smelling the roses... but will I regret
any monetary choices? I seriously doubt it...
at the end of my life and you think I will regret not
buying that brand new car, a Porshe?..... or will I regret not
spending more time on my wife or my daughter... I think the answer is clear....

Kropotkin

Posted: **Sun Aug 13, 2023 4:23 pm**

Peter Kropotkin:
this is a thread I have been meaning to write for while, but
haven't gotten around to...
the one false theory that bugs me the most is this:
time is money....
and no... I can't begin to explain how wrong this is...[/quote]

AGE: Besides 'you', did ANY one "else" ASK?

K: I can't help it that I ask questions that few if any think about..
maybe that is what makes me so "special"

Peter Kropotkin:
money is a fake invention that has no basis in the world outside
of what we give it...

AGE: I suggest that if you REALLY want to talk ABOUT a 'false theory that 'you', and some "others", BELIEVE IN, then 'you' do NOT START 'your' very FIRST EXPLAINING sentence WITH A False theory, which 'you' BELIEVE IN, itself.
I will NOT read the rest, for now, as I have just SAID ENOUGH, ALREADY.

K: I hate to break it to you, but you haven't said anything at all..

Kropotkin

Posted: **Sun Aug 13, 2023 4:46 pm**

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 4:23 pm Peter Kropotkin:
this is a thread I have been meaning to write for while, but
haven't gotten around to...
the one false theory that bugs me the most is this:
time is money....
and no... I can't begin to explain how wrong this is...

AGE: Besides 'you', did ANY one "else" ASK?

K: I can't help it that I ask questions that few if any think about..
maybe that is what makes me so "special"

LOL I WAS REFERRING TO 'you' ANSWERING the QUESTION, ' "peter kropotkin" can you begin to explain how wrong 'this' is '?

In case you STILL have NOT YET NOTICED absolutely NO one ASKED 'you' this question, BUT 'you', "yourself". Which, in a way would make 'you' VERY 'special'.

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 4:23 pm Peter Kropotkin:
money is a fake invention that has no basis in the world outside
of what we give it...

AGE: I suggest that if you REALLY want to talk ABOUT a 'false theory that 'you', and some "others", BELIEVE IN, then 'you' do NOT START 'your' very FIRST EXPLAINING sentence WITH A False theory, which 'you' BELIEVE IN, itself.
I will NOT read the rest, for now, as I have just SAID ENOUGH, ALREADY.

K: I hate to break it to you, but you haven't said anything at all..

Kropotkin

'you' "peter kropotkin", SAID, and WROTE, 'money is a fake invention'.

In case 'you' have NOT YET NOTICED "peter kropotkin" 'money' WAS invented, WAS ACTUALLY created, and ACTUALLY EXISTS, in those societies when this WAS being written. Therefore, money is NOT a fake invention.

That money WAS and IS NOT NEEDED in ANY way, shape, NOR form IS ONE 'thing', but 'this' is NO way MEANS NOR SUGGESTS that money, itself, is a 'fake invention'.

SO, 'you' DID SAY SOME 'thing', which WAS A 'False theory', and one that 'you' BELIEVED was true, or IN.

Posted: **Sun Aug 13, 2023 4:55 pm**

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 4:46 pm
Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 4:23 pm Peter Kropotkin:
this is a thread I have been meaning to write for while, but
haven't gotten around to...
the one false theory that bugs me the most is this:
time is money....
and no... I can't begin to explain how wrong this is...

AGE: Besides 'you', did ANY one "else" ASK?

K: I can't help it that I ask questions that few if any think about..
maybe that is what makes me so "special"
LOL I WAS REFERRING TO 'you' ANSWERING the QUESTION, ' "peter kropotkin" can you begin to explain how wrong 'this' is '?

In case you STILL have NOT YET NOTICED absolutely NO one ASKED 'you' this question, BUT 'you', "yourself". Which, in a way would make 'you' VERY 'special'.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 4:23 pm Peter Kropotkin:
money is a fake invention that has no basis in the world outside
of what we give it...

AGE: I suggest that if you REALLY want to talk ABOUT a 'false theory that 'you', and some "others", BELIEVE IN, then 'you' do NOT START 'your' very FIRST EXPLAINING sentence WITH A False theory, which 'you' BELIEVE IN, itself.
I will NOT read the rest, for now, as I have just SAID ENOUGH, ALREADY.

K: I hate to break it to you, but you haven't said anything at all..

Kropotkin
'you' "peter kropotkin", SAID, and WROTE, 'money is a fake invention'.

In case 'you' have NOT YET NOTICED "peter kropotkin" 'money' WAS invented, WAS ACTUALLY created, and ACTUALLY EXISTS, in those societies when this WAS being written. Therefore, money is NOT a fake invention.

That money WAS and IS NOT NEEDED in ANY way, shape, NOR form IS ONE 'thing', but 'this' is NO way MEANS NOR SUGGESTS that money, itself, is a 'fake invention'.

SO, 'you' DID SAY SOME 'thing', which WAS A 'False theory', and one that 'you' BELIEVED was true, or IN.

K: what is money? please explain what exactly money is?

Kropotkin

Posted: **Sun Aug 13, 2023 5:00 pm**

Work smarter, not harder!

This one is a favorite of efficiency experts and mid-level managers alike. As if breaking a task into its sub-routines, and reassembling them in some manner will result in greater productivity and job satisfaction.While this can be helpful in some situations, and therefore not always false, it is often inappropriately applied. I will give an example.

At a large outpatient clinic, it was noted that the medical assistants were seemingly inefficient at performing their tasks. Those duties included greeting patients and escorting them to exam rooms, taking a brief history, performing basic vital signs, following up after the doctor’s visit by accomplishing any task left undone, and calling patients to advise them of lab results and confer any messages from their provider.

The solution was to task the corporate trainers with developing a course on time management. The course was happily condensed to a one hour class. This meant that every medical assistant in the organization would be taken away from their work for one hour’s time. The class covered the importance of time management, but did not offer any practical tips.

But the medical assistants actually had no control over their time, and no possible way to manage it. Their workday was totally at the mercy of when patients would arrive, some late and some early and possibly followed by someone who was early, some who were chatty and some who were not, when follow up tasks would be required or when not, when a patient would be available to receive a phone call or not.

Really, all the poor medical assistants could do was to work faster, work harder, and hope that their managers would work smarter.

Posted: **Sun Aug 13, 2023 5:05 pm**

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 4:55 pm
Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 4:46 pm
Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 4:23 pm Peter Kropotkin:
this is a thread I have been meaning to write for while, but
haven't gotten around to...
the one false theory that bugs me the most is this:
time is money....
and no... I can't begin to explain how wrong this is...

AGE: Besides 'you', did ANY one "else" ASK?

K: I can't help it that I ask questions that few if any think about..
maybe that is what makes me so "special"
LOL I WAS REFERRING TO 'you' ANSWERING the QUESTION, ' "peter kropotkin" can you begin to explain how wrong 'this' is '?

In case you STILL have NOT YET NOTICED absolutely NO one ASKED 'you' this question, BUT 'you', "yourself". Which, in a way would make 'you' VERY 'special'.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 4:23 pm Peter Kropotkin:
money is a fake invention that has no basis in the world outside
of what we give it...

AGE: I suggest that if you REALLY want to talk ABOUT a 'false theory that 'you', and some "others", BELIEVE IN, then 'you' do NOT START 'your' very FIRST EXPLAINING sentence WITH A False theory, which 'you' BELIEVE IN, itself.
I will NOT read the rest, for now, as I have just SAID ENOUGH, ALREADY.

K: I hate to break it to you, but you haven't said anything at all..

Kropotkin
'you' "peter kropotkin", SAID, and WROTE, 'money is a fake invention'.

In case 'you' have NOT YET NOTICED "peter kropotkin" 'money' WAS invented, WAS ACTUALLY created, and ACTUALLY EXISTS, in those societies when this WAS being written. Therefore, money is NOT a fake invention.

That money WAS and IS NOT NEEDED in ANY way, shape, NOR form IS ONE 'thing', but 'this' is NO way MEANS NOR SUGGESTS that money, itself, is a 'fake invention'.

SO, 'you' DID SAY SOME 'thing', which WAS A 'False theory', and one that 'you' BELIEVED was true, or IN.

K: what is money? please explain what exactly money is?

Kropotkin

Bits of metal, paper, plastic, and/or screens with numbers on 'it'.

you KNOW the 'things' that 'you', human beings, count and CLAIMS AS 'yours'.

Posted: **Sun Aug 13, 2023 5:38 pm**

Pauli Proverb:

Das ist nicht nur richtig;
es ist nicht einmal falsch...

Kropotkin

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2023 5:23 am**

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 5:38 pm Pauli Proverb:

Das ist nicht nur richtig;
es ist nicht einmal falsch...

Kropotkin

Now that I HAVE EXPLAINED what 'money' IS, EXACTLY, the ONLY RECOURSE FOR 'this one' now WAS to just SPEAK, and WRITE, in ANOTHER language.

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:38 am**

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 3:50 pm this is a thread I have been meaning to write for while, but
haven't gotten around to...

the one false theory that bugs me the most is this:

time is money....

and no... I can't begin to explain how wrong this is...

money is a fake invention that has no basis in the world outside
of what we give it... whereas time, time is real... time is
far more connected to space than money...

and the reason I think that people connect time and money, is
that they have a false conception of both... the only reason that
time might equal money is that we are supposed to, as per the
theory of capitalism, we are supposed to spend our time in
the act of production or working or consuming...
and any time away from producing or working or consuming,
is wasted time.. at least according to capitalists who benefit
the most from this false idea...
time spent away from production or working or consuming,
is time badly spent...at least according to capitalism....
if we aren't working, then it is costing us money.. we aren't receiving
our wages or our profits... and that is what counts... getting money in
terms of profits or wages... and nothing else matters... thus we
can make the false assumption that time equals money....

given a choice between time or money, one would be wise to pick time..
every single time....for once a moment is lost, it is lost forever,
whereas money is easily replaceable...indeed, money comes and goes
from our lives, quite often and quickly.... there is nothing permanent
about money.. it is temporary... whereas we live in time, all our lives...

given a choice between stopping and smelling the roses or
or working to making money..... for me, that isn't even a choice...
for taking the time to see what is around us, has far more value
than any amount of money... to benefit the soul isn't about
money, but about taking the time to see joy and beauty
and love.... my soul gets a great deal of benefit from
smelling the roses, far more than working my 8 hours...

to show us another example of time over money... falling in love...
that is, in just about every example, fiscally irresponsible...
to waste time falling in love cost us money, effort, time...
there is no good fiscal argument for seeking love..
it is expensive and has no financial payoff..
and yet, love give us something that money will never give us...
which is meaning and a goal that makes life worth living for...
we can find the meaning of life in love but we can't find
the meaning of life in money...

and we can find meaning in seeking out beauty and hope and
love and all those things that lay outside of just making money or
spending money.... truth is that we are most human when
we are not seeking out money or profits.. but we are most
human when we do things that has nothing to do with profits/money...
such as the act of creating.. making music or painting or even just
enjoying the sunset.. these things define us a human in a way
that money cannot...

at the end of my days... will I regret making very little money or
will I regret not loving enough? I think the answer to that is quite
clear... I will regret not loving enough or not making the right
choices, or not smelling the roses... but will I regret
any monetary choices? I seriously doubt it...
at the end of my life and you think I will regret not
buying that brand new car, a Porshe?..... or will I regret not
spending more time on my wife or my daughter... I think the answer is clear....

Kropotkin

How do you feel about my assertion that money is time?

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:17 pm**

Maybe I should reframe that in a way you may feel worthy of discussion?

MONEY is a store of time that HUMANS have spent in creating (via work).

Some peoples TIME is valued more, so they don't need to spend as much 'effort' for the same amount of MONEY that others need to exert.

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:37 am**

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:17 pm Maybe I should reframe that in a way you may feel worthy of discussion?

MONEY is a store of time that HUMANS have spent in creating (via work).

Some peoples TIME is valued more, so they don't need to spend as much 'effort' for the same amount of MONEY that others need to exert.

K: it isn't about my commenting on the post, I just have very limited amount
of time to post.. as I work full time... and can cram in posting at all hours..
for example, as I can't sleep right now, its 2:30 in the morning..
and a post like yours requires some thought...time is my problem,
not about any consideration of a post...

Kropotkin

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:06 am**

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 3:50 pm the one false theory that bugs me the most is this:

The theory that bugs me the most is the false theory of which truth theory is the truest theory of truth.

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:10 am**

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:37 am
attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:17 pm Maybe I should reframe that in a way you may feel worthy of discussion?

MONEY is a store of time that HUMANS have spent in creating (via work).

Some peoples TIME is valued more, so they don't need to spend as much 'effort' for the same amount of MONEY that others need to exert.
K: it isn't about my commenting on the post, I just have very limited amount
of time to post.. as I work full time... and can cram in posting at all hours..
for example, as I can't sleep right now, its 2:30 in the morning..
and a post like yours requires some thought...time is my problem,
not about any consideration of a post...

Kropotkin

I appreciate that Mr K - all in good time, i'd be interested in your contemplations\musing over my statement.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:48 pm**

money only has value, worth if, if we accept it...
money is an mental concept, a mental construct...
if we believe that green pieces of paper have no value,
then money is worthless... money can only have value
if, if people believe it has value... we only have money if
people have faith that money is actually worth something...
lose that faith, and money is worthless...

to believe that my time, my effort is worth $25 bucks an hour,
is a mental construct.. because on what standard do we use
to understand my effort is worth $25 bucks an hour?
it is an artificial judgement that we agree that my work is
worth $25 bucks and a doctor's value is worth $100 bucks an hour...

the only way a money society like ours succeed is that we all
agree that money has a value of some sort...
and the fact that money can fluctuate in terms of how much
it is, tells us that money exists based on a mental note we have
of it, not a real aspect of it....look at the value of the Russian
Ruble.. it has lost tremendous value in the last year...
but that is an artificial belief... because we have no
realistic means of knowing how much value the Russian Ruble
actually has....unless we compare that ruble to another artificial
value like the American dollar... belief in the value of money
requires us to hold to some fake artificial value of money....
that today my dollar might buy a piece of gum and tomorrow
my dollar might buy me a can of coke... if the value of the dollar
changes, how is that a forever value? on what basis can we
hold to the value of money if that value is always changing?

money is a value only because we believe it to be so...
once we lose belief in the value of money, then money
is worthless...may as well wipe your ass with it...

Kropotkin

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