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if i am right for the wrong kinds of reasons does it still count as knowledge?
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 6:26 am
by Toppsy Kretts
so??
Re: if i am right for the wrong kinds of reasons does it still count as knowledge?
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 9:20 am
by Skepdick
If it's stupid and it works then it's not stupid.
The situation you are concerned with has been debated at length in epistemology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettier_problem
Further discussion around similar sort of problems are covered under Newcomb's paradox. In this particular scenario it proves difficult to determine what "being right" even means.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcomb%27s_paradox
Re: if i am right for the wrong kinds of reasons does it still count as knowledge?
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:27 am
by Harbal
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 9:20 am
Further discussion around similar sort of problems are covered under Newcomb's paradox.
If I remember correctly, Newcomb arose one morning and simply could not decide which shoes to wear. Normally, he would have just put on his favourite pair of shoes, but it was raining and they let in water. His other pair, which he was not nearly so keen on, were quite water tight, however. Newcomb had an important appointment that particular morning, and wanted to look his nicest, so he really needed to wear his best shoes, but he hated having wet feet; hence his paradox. Newcomb's appointment was at his bank, where he urgently needed to secure a loan, and he knew that the manager of the bank was very fastidious regarding personal appearance, so attending the meeting wearing the right shoes was of critical importance. Newcomb struggled with his dilemma over a cup of tea and two very crispy pieces of toast, with butter and marmalade. No sooner had he popped the last morsel of toast into his mouth than the answer came to him in one of those insightful flashes of clarity that are often preceded by a civilised breakfast. Newcomb walked to the bank in his waterproof shoes, and then quickly changed into his best ones before stepping into the manager's office, where he successfully secured his much needed loan. There was an unfortunate twist to the story, however. In his joy and relief at getting his bank loan, Newcomb forgot to change back into his other shoes for the journey home, and arrived back at his residence with very wet feet.
And that, in a nutshell, is Newcomb's paradox.
Re: if i am right for the wrong kinds of reasons does it still count as knowledge?
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:29 am
by Sculptor
Right and wrong are not about knowledge. They are judgements of truth.
Re: if i am right for the wrong kinds of reasons does it still count as knowledge?
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:33 am
by Skepdick
Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:27 am
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 9:20 am
Further discussion around similar sort of problems are covered under Newcomb's paradox.
If I remember correctly, Newcomb arose one morning and simply could not decide which shoes to wear. Normally, he would have just put on his favourite pair of shoes, but it was raining and they let in water. His other pair, which he was not nearly so keen on, were quite water tight, however. Newcomb had an important appointment that particular morning, and wanted to look his nicest, so he really needed to wear his best shoes, but he hated having wet feet; hence his paradox. Newcomb's appointment was at his bank, where he urgently needed to secure a loan, and he knew that the manager of the bank was very fastidious regarding personal appearance, so attending the meeting wearing the right shoes was of critical importance. Newcomb struggled with his dilemma over a cup of tea and two very crispy pieces of toast, with butter and marmalade. No sooner had he popped the last morsel of toast into his mouth than the answer came to him in one of those insightful flashes of clarity that are often preceded by a civilised breakfast. Newcomb walked to the bank in his waterproof shoes, and then quickly changed into his best ones before stepping into the manager's office, where he successfully secured his much needed loan. There was an unfortunate twist to the story, however. In his joy and relief at getting his bank loan, Newcomb forgot to change back into his other shoes for the journey home, and arrived back at his residence with very wet feet.
And that, in a nutshell, is Newcomb's paradox.
Sounds like you are intricately familiar with Newcom's life. Were you stalking him?
Re: if i am right for the wrong kinds of reasons does it still count as knowledge?
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:40 am
by Harbal
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:33 am
Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:27 am
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 9:20 am
Further discussion around similar sort of problems are covered under Newcomb's paradox.
If I remember correctly, Newcomb arose one morning and simply could not decide which shoes to wear. Normally, he would have just put on his favourite pair of shoes, but it was raining and they let in water. His other pair, which he was not nearly so keen on, were quite water tight, however. Newcomb had an important appointment that particular morning, and wanted to look his nicest, so he really needed to wear his best shoes, but he hated having wet feet; hence his paradox. Newcomb's appointment was at his bank, where he urgently needed to secure a loan, and he knew that the manager of the bank was very fastidious regarding personal appearance, so attending the meeting wearing the right shoes was of critical importance. Newcomb struggled with his dilemma over a cup of tea and two very crispy pieces of toast, with butter and marmalade. No sooner had he popped the last morsel of toast into his mouth than the answer came to him in one of those insightful flashes of clarity that are often preceded by a civilised breakfast. Newcomb walked to the bank in his waterproof shoes, and then quickly changed into his best ones before stepping into the manager's office, where he successfully secured his much needed loan. There was an unfortunate twist to the story, however. In his joy and relief at getting his bank loan, Newcomb forgot to change back into his other shoes for the journey home, and arrived back at his residence with very wet feet.
And that, in a nutshell, is Newcomb's paradox.
Sounds like you are intricately familiar with Newcom's life. Were you stalking him?
No, our relationship was platonic.
Re: if i am right for the wrong kinds of reasons does it still count as knowledge?
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:43 am
by Skepdick
Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:40 am
No, our relationship was platonic.
Was he fond of two or three ply toilet paper?
Re: if i am right for the wrong kinds of reasons does it still count as knowledge?
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:54 am
by Harbal
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:43 am
Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:40 am
No, our relationship was platonic.
Was he fond of two or three ply toilet paper?
Why would anyone be fond of toilet paper?
Re: if i am right for the wrong kinds of reasons does it still count as knowledge?
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:55 am
by Skepdick
Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:54 am
Why would anyone be fond of toilet paper?
Ohhh, are you a sticky-brown-finger type of guy?
Re: if i am right for the wrong kinds of reasons does it still count as knowledge?
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:00 pm
by Harbal
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:55 am
Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:54 am
Why would anyone be fond of toilet paper?
Ohhh, are you a sticky-brown-finger type of guy?
Do you only come here to talk crap?
Re: if i am right for the wrong kinds of reasons does it still count as knowledge?
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:02 pm
by Skepdick
Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:00 pm
Do you only come here to talk crap?
I wouldn't talk about it if you weren't touching it.
The civility of toilet paper is wasted on you.
Re: if i am right for the wrong kinds of reasons does it still count as knowledge?
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:06 pm
by Harbal
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:02 pm
Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:00 pm
Do you only come here to talk crap?
I wouldn't talk about it if you weren't touching it.
The civility of toilet paper is wasted on you.
Wit isn't your strong point, is it?
Re: if i am right for the wrong kinds of reasons does it still count as knowledge?
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:08 pm
by Skepdick
Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:06 pm
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:02 pm
Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:00 pm
Do you only come here to talk crap?
I wouldn't talk about it if you weren't touching it.
The civility of toilet paper is wasted on you.
Wit isn't your strong point, is it?
No, but marvelling at your own unappreciated "wit" is certainly yours.
Re: if i am right for the wrong kinds of reasons does it still count as knowledge?
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:12 pm
by Harbal
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:08 pm
Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:06 pm
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:02 pm
I wouldn't talk about it if you weren't touching it.
The civility of toilet paper is wasted on you.
Wit isn't your strong point, is it?
No, but marvelling at your unappreciated "wit" is certainly yours.
Why did you even bother to write that?
Re: if i am right for the wrong kinds of reasons does it still count as knowledge?
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:29 pm
by Skepdick
Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:29 am
Right and wrong are not about knowledge. They are judgements of truth.
If right and wrong are judgments of truth then whare are true and false judgments of?
