Philosophy Now Forum

If "turnaround is fair play" amounts to justice, then would the world also be a better place if people who have no regrets learned what it's like to live with them?

Sometimes we regret what we've done and sometimes we regret what we haven't done.

as an old person, I can say, from personal experience,
that regrets are more about what we didn't do, as opposed
to things that we did do...

the regrets in my life is mostly about what I didn't do, as opposed to
what I did do.. but that is just me....

Kropotkin

'regret' is an illogical concept. Here's why. When u make a decision to do something (it can even be risky), at the moment of your decision, u were such a person in such a place at such a time in such circumstances that that occured to u as the 'right thing to do'. U had your reasons, whatever they were.

What u can't do is go back in time and say 'hey bro, that decision you're about to make isn't going to turn out well. I'm u from the future. Just letting u know.'

'if i knew then what i know now, I wouldn't have done that' one says to oneself. Okay sure that works as a general guide for future decision making - learn not to do the things that end up not working - but to tell yourself that now, after the fact, in a gesture of self regret, is just bananas. U literally can't do it man. Again, whatever and whenever and wherever whatever happened, u had your reasons goddamit.

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2023 6:37 pm as an old person, I can say, from personal experience,
that regrets are more about what we didn't do, as opposed
to things that we did do...

the regrets in my life is mostly about what I didn't do, as opposed to
what I did do.. but that is just me....

Kropotkin

Exactly what any ageing narcissist would say.

To live effectively, one must learn to live in the fear of the moment, then the regret of the moment after.

"Turnabout is fair play" is not a common expression and seems to have two meanings. The first is that if someone uses unfair actions against you, you can use unfair actions against them. The other is "an eye for an eye" revenge so that if they damage you in a certain way you can damage them back in the same way. Those two ideas are not really the same. Which one is closer to the the definition you mean?

There is no justice without compensating of the victims of a wrong. When a victim is compensated and the wrongdoer no longer threatens further harm, the issue is resolved. Therefore any sort of revenge or vengeance is not an essential part of justice. In some cases there is nothing that can be done to repair the damage from a wrong such as when a death is involved. In that case there is no justice possible because while the wrongdoer danger can be stopped, the victim cannot be made whole with restitution. Killing the wrongdoer does prevent further harm to others but so does putting the wrongdoer in prison for life.

Doing more damage in the process of justice than is needed is unethical because it is very easy to cause more damage than was done in the first place by the original wrongdoer.

It is indeed so. I'll note that while 'regret' is an illogical concept in that it isn't possible to say i made a bad decision post hoc - the results of a decision may be bad, but I'd not be able to go back in time to warn myself before i made the decision that it would be bad - it's still a meaningful concept if i have in mind and examine the effects of feeling regret in a William Jamesean kinda way; whether or not it is true, i still feel remorse and regret... therefore my behavior reflects that. I think and act with more modesty and humility. If i am arrogant, vain or overfull of pride, that is noticably kept in check even alone in my own company. I am a better person becuz i feel this illogical thing 'regret'.

The analytical philosopher in me knows it's all nonsense, just like it's (required) partner theory of freewill... but the pragmatist in me carries the day.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2023 7:06 pm'regret' is an illogical concept. Here's why. When u make a decision to do something (it can even be risky), at the moment of your decision, u were such a person in such a place at such a time in such circumstances that that occured to u as the 'right thing to do'. U had your reasons, whatever they were.

What u can't do is go back in time and say 'hey bro, that decision you're about to make isn't going to turn out well. I'm u from the future. Just letting u know.'

'if i knew then what i know now, I wouldn't have done that' one says to oneself. Okay sure that works as a general guide for future decision making - learn not to do the things that end up not working - but to tell yourself that now, after the fact, in a gesture of self regret, is just bananas. U literally can't do it man. Again, whatever and whenever and wherever whatever happened, u had your reasons goddamit.

I think you're missing the part where, intentionally or unintentionally, your actions can harm others.

Regret implies that you can empathize and sympathize with the victim of your actions.

But if you were born a victim, then your mind won't or can't imagine victimizing others.

"your actions can harm others"

Why should the well being of others concern me?

"Regret implies that you can empathize and sympathize with the victim of your actions."

No 'regret' implies 'damn i shouldn't have done that' (which we determined can't be done post hoc) not 'i sympathize with you for how my actions effected you'. You can actually do both; not regret anything and still acknowledge the inconvenience or suffering what you've done, causes others. And we may even apologize from time to time... but no, never regret.

"if you were born a victim, then your mind won't or can't imagine victimizing others"

I don't even know what that means. Are u saying someone who gets punched in the face all the time can't sympathize with someone they punch in the face?

Bro i feel like this is one of those philosophical statements that doesn't really mean anything once u try to make sense of it.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 6:22 pm"your actions can harm others"

Why should the well being of others concern me?

We live in a society

promethean75 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 6:22 pmNo 'regret' implies 'damn i shouldn't have done that' (which we determined can't be done post hoc) not 'i sympathize with you for how my actions effected you'. You can actually do both; not regret anything and still acknowledge the inconvenience or suffering what you've done, causes others. And we may even apologize from time to time... but no, never regret.

I think regret is based on looking back on previous experiences with newfound knowledge, wisdom, and insight. If you wouldn't have done something, or would have done it another way, then that's regret. It can range from no big deal, to life eating shame and guilt. Shame and guilt extend from regret. You can't have either, without regret.

Guilt is regret, on top of how people think about each-other, and offer respect. If you're not guilty of crimes accused against you, then it doesn't really matter what your position is, instead it matters what your peers think and belief and feel about you. So guilt is a social mandate. Shame is an after-effect of guilt, the consequences of feeling guilty and accepting the libel of social peers.

If you're anti-social, then the rules are a little different, but regret stays the same.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 6:31 pm"if you were born a victim, then your mind won't or can't imagine victimizing others"

I don't even know what that means. Are u saying someone who gets punched in the face all the time can't sympathize with someone they punch in the face?

Bro i feel like this is one of those philosophical statements that doesn't really mean anything once u try to make sense of it.

It means that neurosis and psychopathy instinctively prevents a person from sympathizing with their victim.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2023 7:06 pm 'regret' is an illogical concept. Here's why. When u make a decision to do something (it can even be risky), at the moment of your decision, u were such a person in such a place at such a time in such circumstances that that occured to u as the 'right thing to do'. U had your reasons, whatever they were.

What u can't do is go back in time and say 'hey bro, that decision you're about to make isn't going to turn out well. I'm u from the future. Just letting u know.'

'if i knew then what i know now, I wouldn't have done that' one says to oneself. Okay sure that works as a general guide for future decision making - learn not to do the things that end up not working - but to tell yourself that now, after the fact, in a gesture of self regret, is just bananas. U literally can't do it man. Again, whatever and whenever and wherever whatever happened, u had your reasons goddamit.

Yes, you cannot regret your decision if it was well founded at the time. All you can do is remember not to do the same thing again.