Philosophy Now Forum

in thinking about the idea that private vices don't make
a public good, that is the cornerstone of capitalism,
I got to wondering about vices...although I am
an atheist, I have read the bible dozens of times...
and its list of vices is quite good.... so here
are the seven cardinal sins of human beings according
to the bible....

Pride, greed, wrath (anger) envy, lust, gluttony, sloth...

now if we think about it, capitalism promotes almost all
of these vices... Pride, taking pride in making money and having
a dozens houses, greed, in having those dozens houses, wrath,
(I had to look this one up) extreme anger... and the right is always
very angry about something or other.. CRT, drag shows, blacks,
education, the IRS, there is a very long, extensive list about
the things the right is angry about... envy, angry about the number
of houses or the money that my neighbors made...lust,
every single commercial that shows a beautiful woman or man,
is designed to capitalize on lust, gluttony...is practically,
a national trait...to overindulge is not only wanted but expected..
see any number of holidays that overindulgence is expected,
thanksgiving, New Year's eve, Halloween, St. Patrick's day,
Cinco de mayo... it is expected that one drinks, overindulges
on these days... and the one sin that isn't promoted by capitalism,
sloth...it is probably the hardest sin to define, but basically it's
habitual disinclination to exertion or laziness.... again capitalism
rails against sloth constantly... but why this sin? basically capitalism
as system wants everyone to work, regardless of ability or desire to
want to work... the reason that sloth is so disliked by capitalism
is that capitalism want everyone to work so capitalists can make
more money, the more workers, the more profits to capitalists...
simple greed demands that everyone works to make a profit
in capitalism... if you can't work, you are a moocher, a lazy bum,
one who lives off another without giving anything in return...
and that is anyone who isn't working... thus disable people or
the old or children or mothers, anyone who isn't creating a profit
for capitalism is a moocher...or so says capitalists.. who put
making money above the health and lives of people....capitalists
are pushing for nihilism when pushing for money before the lives
and health of people... Nihilism: the action of negating, dehumanizing
people human beings by putting money or another value before
human beings....

vices all, and yet capitalism promotes most of these "sins"
quite vigorously.... in fact, I would say that if we take
these sins away from capitalism, capitalism would collapse...
that is how necessary these sins are for capitalism....they
are the foundation to the house of capitalism...

now let us look at communism.... where we put the needs of others
before ourselves... where we build our house together, there is
no one person before another in communism... we are a part
of a bigger whole in communism, there are either workers or
there are capitalists... there is no middle ground in communism...
(which in fact is one of my objections to communism, that
they don't think about the middle ground, it is one extreme or
the other in communism)

that in communism workers are part of a necessary "science" that
makes workers a part of a historical movement that will end
with a workers paradise, (again, a doubtful and dubious
ending to be sure, and not one that I am sure we even want)
that workers are part of a wave that will bring the end to
capitalism and bring about paradise... personally, I don't
believe in a paradise, so for me, no, for under this system,
it becomes easy to sacrifice people to the greater cause of
communism, and that very sacrifice is what is wrong with
communism.... for capitalism does the exact same thing,
sacrifices people in order to make a profit... there is
no difference between communism and capitalism
in their need to sacrifice people for the movement...
and this is one of my many objections of both capitalism
and communism....to put the movement before
the lives and values of people, and that is the classic
definition of nihilism.... what is needed is a third way
that can be a method of a system, without
the need to sacrifice the few for the many, where individuals
are as valued as the many...

but for now, given a choice, I would easily pick communism over
capitalism basically because of the immense harm capitalism
has done to America and the world today... but more on this
in my next post..

Kropotkin

"I have read the bible dozens of times..."

A lie.

Nobody has read the bible dozens of times unless they lived in the fifteenth century and had a name like Cornelius.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 4:12 pm "I have read the bible dozens of times..."

A lie.

Nobody has read the bible dozens of times unless they lived in the fifteenth century and had a name like Cornelius.

K: sorry to disappoint you, but I have read the bible a dozen or so times..
I haven't read it in a few years, but I read it during my religious
phase... I also read the Koran, (perhaps the most boring book I have
ever read) and I read every single religious text I could get my hands on...
and I read the biographies and autobiography of anyone who was religious..
to be honest, my favorite religion is Jainism...but that's me....
and today, I am reading St. Francis by Kazantzakis...
K. is a man who spent of lifetime seeking god...and one of my
favorite authors... seeking.. I believe in the search for god or
perhaps what we most want in life... in my case, knowledge or
wisdom...

Kropotkin

now to return to my point, I can't see how these private
vices of pride, greed, wrath, envy, lust, gluttony and
sloth can possibly create a public good....the very vices
that capitalism depends on, and in fact, promotes as "positive"
values, can create a public good.... there is no public good
in these values... How does envy create a public good,
or how does greed create a public good? and yet,
the RIGHT wing still holds that private vices create
a public good...the only thing a private vice creates
is a public vice, and has nothing to do with the creation of
any type of public good....

you want a better society/state.. then we have to promote
values that aren't negative or create vices... if you want a better
state, we have to walk away from values that are promoted by
capitalism and the right wing...
and we must now value or promote values like love, peace,
non-violence, justice, harmony, charity, truth, and honesty,
to name just a few values that we can promote and live
by instead of the negative, harmful values of anger, lust,
pride, envy, wrath and of course, the most modern and promoted
value of our modern times, greed.... all they do is promote
negative values that harm the public good... nothing more...

as a liberal, I want to promote the value of justice... for to
be just, is to be equal... and justice is equality before the law...
and justice in society is to promote justice/equality within
all aspects of a state/society....not just the law.....but in how
we treat people within all parts of a state/society...
equally, with justice....

Kropotkin