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failure to understand today...
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 4:34 pm
by Peter Kropotkin
one thing I have noticed is that the "kids" today
have no historical sense...they can't picture where we
are today in terms of historical precedence...
the fact is that America is as far right wing as it has ever been...,
the founding fathers were in fact, the last generation of
the "Enlightenment" era... and both the declaration
and the constitution, are both enlightenment documents...
in terms of history, America is going through an unprecedented
time being right wing.. the closes we might get is the short time
in which is called the "Robber Baron" age...in the late 19th century...
from about 1870 to Teddy Roosevelt.. but that is as close as we
have ever gotten to our own modern era... for the most part,
America has been center right... rarely ever center left...
even the 1950's weren't as right wing/conservative as we are today...
but as any good historian will tell you, that the nature of history
is one of cycles... history flows from one cycle to the next,
going from liberal to conservative and back again to being liberal....
as the U.S has done for over 200 years... I am encouraged
in knowing that we are heading for the next cycle, which
will be undoubtedly liberal... now, I may not be alive to see
that liberal age, but rest assured, it is coming...
think of it this way, for every action, there is an equal and opposite
reaction...
Kropotkin
Re: failure to understand today...
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 4:39 pm
by Immanuel Can
Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 4:34 pm
one thing I have noticed is that the "kids" today
have no historical sense...
An important point.
Why don't we teach them about the secret police, the torture rooms, the assassinations, the lies, the gulags, the purges, the re-education camps, the death marches, the thefts, brutality and murders of every Socialist regime that's ever existed in history? Could we at least point out to them the pile over over 100 million corpses left by Socialist dictators in just the last century?
That would be great...and really, really helpful to them in knowing what sort of politics to espouse, and which kind they should never support.
Let's do it.
Re: failure to understand today...
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 5:06 pm
by Peter Kropotkin
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 4:39 pm
Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 4:34 pm
one thing I have noticed is that the "kids" today
have no historical sense...
An important point.
Why don't we teach them about the secret police, the torture rooms, the assassinations, the lies, the gulags, the purges, the re-education camps, the death marches, the thefts, brutality and murders of every capitalist regime that's ever existed in history? Could we at least point out to them the pile over 100 million corpses left by capitalist in just the last century?
K: there fixed it for you...
that America has engaged in genocide cannot be denied, that America
and the west, has secret police.. all those 3 letter agencies,
and that we torture people, Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo bay...
and we engage in assassinations, and god knows how much the western
government lie and we don't need re-education camps if we "educate"
our children as we do, and theft and brutality and murder...
try reading the daily newspaper... from George Floyd to other victims
of police brutality, in 2022 the police in America killed 1176 people...
their names are listed online if you care to look...
that is the problem today, that we no longer are the "shining city
on the hill" we have lost our moral high ground...and we
engaged in the exact same practices that the Soviet Union engaged
in and that today, China engages in, and that the Nazis engaged in....
That we no longer understand or have any type of morals or ethics,
that much is clear... and what is the solution?
become aware of our own failure in these matters of ethics/morals...
the start to any solution begins with some understanding of the problem...
that we don't even know or acknowledge our issues is part of the problem...
Kropotkin
Re: failure to understand today...
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 5:25 pm
by Immanuel Can
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 4:39 pm
Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 4:34 pm
one thing I have noticed is that the "kids" today
have no historical sense...
An important point.
Why don't we teach them about the secret police, the torture rooms, the assassinations, the lies, the gulags, the purges, the re-education camps, the death marches, the thefts, brutality and murders of every capitalist regime that's ever existed in history? Could we at least point out to them the pile over 100 million corpses left by capitalist in just the last century?
Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 4:34 pmthere fixed it for you...
that America has engaged in genocide cannot be denied, that America
and the west, has secret police.. all those 3 letter agencies,
and that we torture people, Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo bay...
and we engage in assassinations, and god knows how much the western
government lie and we don't need re-education camps if we "educate"
our children as we do, and theft and brutality and murder...
try reading the daily newspaper... from George Floyd to other victims
of police brutality, in 2022 the police in America killed 1176 people...
their names are listed online if you care to look...
that is the problem today, that we no longer are the "shining city
on the hill" we have lost our moral high ground...and we
engaged in the exact same practices that the Soviet Union engaged
in and that today, China engages in, and that the Nazis engaged in....
That we no longer understand or have any type of morals or ethics,
that much is clear... and what is the solution?
become aware of our own failure in these matters of ethics/morals...
the start to any solution begins with some understanding of the problem...
that we don't even know or acknowledge our issues is part of the problem...
Kropotkin
I'm fine with teaching as much of that as is true...and I'm not American.
Let's teach Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, Cambodia, Zimbabwe, East Germany,...
Then, for our American history fans, let's add in the history of the Democrat Party, particularly that they were 100% of the slave owners, all the troops of the old South that fought to keep them, 100% of the Segregationist governors and officials who so staunchly opposed integration, 100% of the creators and all the original members of the KKK...and also the mayors for decades of some of the most horrible racial disaster areas of the States, such as Detroit, Baltimore, Chicago...and let's teach modern history, as well, including how cities like New York, San Francisco, LA, Seattle and Portland are doing right now.
This is getting good. Let's get back to teaching history. All of it.
Re: failure to understand today...
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 6:46 pm
by commonsense
The discussion up to this point has focused on the “what” of teaching history (the content), but at least equally important is the “how” (the methodology).
The generations after Gen Z will need to learn on social media from memes and short clips (for those who are visual or aural learners). Tactile learners may be accommodated by challenges to build models (say, of Leif Eriksson’s ship or a Spanish mission or a re-education camp).
There will need to be randomized test questions with sufficient security to prevent sharing of answers. Prizes (free subscriptions to educational services or gift certificates for ring tones or popular tunes, to name a few) will encourage best performances on the brief tests.
Re: failure to understand today...
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 5:15 pm
by Peter Kropotkin
Immanuel can:
Let's teach Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, Cambodia, Zimbabwe, East Germany,...
K: great, rock on...but I am far more interested in your
incredible ignorance about political parties in America...
You say you are not an American and it shows about
your nonsense about the Democratic party....
IC: Then, for our American history fans, let's add in the history of the Democrat Party, particularly that they were 100% of the slave owners, all the troops of the old South that fought to keep them, 100% of the Segregationist governors and officials who so staunchly opposed integration, 100% of the creators and all the original members of the KKK...and also the mayors for decades of some of the most horrible racial disaster areas of the States, such as Detroit, Baltimore, Chicago...and let's teach modern history, as well, including how cities like New York, San Francisco, LA, Seattle and Portland are doing right now.
This is getting good. Let's get back to teaching history. All of it.
[/quote]
K: that political parties change, evolve and even go out of business,
see the Know nothing party that existed in America during the
19the century.. among other political parties that have existed
both in America and in England.. you may as well blame the Whig
party for causing the second World War.... it's that ridiculous
of an accusation blaming the current, modern Democratic party
for sins committed by a party that has no connection to
the modern democratic party outside of having the same name....
that the two parties have switched places is a historical fact...
one that you would know if you were an American..
so to teach that the modern Democratic party had something to
do with holding slaves over 150 years ago is rewriting history
in just the way I specifically was trying to get rid of... to confuse
and conflate names, words, ideas into meaning something else...
and your use of the democratic party, as it existed over 150 years
ago is such a use of confusing and conflating ideas and words
into meaning something else...and it isn't teaching history...
it is weaponizing history for one's benefit... it is a clearly
false accusation that 5 minutes of research would have
stop you from using... but you are not interesting in the truth...
you are interested in making false, phony accusations..
and that is not the history I am interested in...
so rock on in holding to your false historical account....
I prefer the truth...
Kropotkin