Philosophy Now Forum

Thesis: There are objective moral facts, thus morality is objective because Space & Time are Not Mind-Independent, but rather are conditioned upon a specific human-based science-physics FSR-FSK.
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Space & Time are Not Mind-Independent as justified in this video;

What’s Your Brain’s Role in Creating Space & Time?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV9MnAZLmMQ

This video contrast
Einstein, Newton's absoluteness of Space and Time,
contrast with
Descartes, Leibniz who believe in the relational space and time; and
Kant, who believed Space and Time are related to the mind.
@2.09

The world is a n-dimensional energy soup; what is time & space are conditioned upon the organism's mind in evolutionary time, in the case of humans, the human mind.
15.10

Many scientists are accepting the DEMISE of Space-Time as a fundamental external objective reality; 15.57

Since Space & Time are fundamental to all of reality, therefore all of reality CANNOT be mind-independent but somehow is related to the human-mind via a human-based FSR-FSK.
AS such, philosophical realism [e.g. claims by PH and gang] that claim reality is mind-independent cannot be realistic; as I have claimed philosophical realism is illusory as driven by an evolutionary default.

Since Philosophical Realism is illusory, any refutation of objective moral facts and moral objectivity based on this ideology is groundless.

On the other hand, all facts are conditioned upon a human-based FSR-FSK, thus is objective.
All objective moral facts are conditioned upon a human-based moral FSR-FSK which has near equivalent objectivity to that of the scientific FSR-FSK.

Notes:

Are Space and Time An Illusion?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YycAzdtUIko

What If Space And Time Are NOT Real?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN8nTQiWOYY

Time Does Not Exist. Let me explain with a graph.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpyXVkq ... MQ&index=6
This is based on the Philosophical Doctrine which claim Time is Absolute and mind-independent. This video counters relative to that claim.

On the other hand, time do exists but its not mind-independent but rather time exists as conditioned upon a human-based science-physics-FSK and other FSKs.
Whatever is FSK-ed, it follows, ultimately cannot be mind-independent.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:03 am
Many scientists are accepting the DEMISE of Space-Time as a fundamental external objective reality; 15.57

Since Space & Time are fundamental to all of reality, therefore all of reality CANNOT be mind-independent but somehow is related to the human-mind via a human-based FSR-FSK.
AS such, philosophical realism [e.g. claims by PH and gang] that claim reality is mind-independent cannot be realistic; as I have claimed philosophical realism is illusory as driven by an evolutionary default.

Great link. However, what it's saying is not that space time isn't real, but that space time is emergent. Saying something is emergent is very different from saying it isn't real. I think you're once again reading as much of your own beliefs as you can into whatever words you can find scientists saying.

Separately from the context of this thread, I think the emergence of space time, or non-fundamental nature of space time, is a very very interesting topic with all sorts of implications.

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:36 am Saying something is emergent is very different from saying it isn't real.

"Very different" for whom?

Gods are emergent too. They emerge as psychological and sociological phenomena.

Ask the realists whether they think gods are real.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:03 am Thesis: There are objective moral facts, thus morality is objective because Space & Time are Not Mind-Independent, but rather are conditioned upon a specific human-based science-physics FSR-FSK.
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You're at it again!

How many more times, for God's sake!!!?

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:58 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:03 am Thesis: There are objective moral facts, thus morality is objective because Space & Time are Not Mind-Independent, but rather are conditioned upon a specific human-based science-physics FSR-FSK.
................

You're at it again!

How many more times, for God's sake!!!?

Hairball, you are being exceptionally inconsiderate!

The milk has gone cold and the cookies are now stale.

Septic wrote:
Hairball, you are being exceptionally inconsiderate!

How is that relevant?

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 11:12 am

Septic wrote:
Hairball, you are being exceptionally inconsiderate!

How is that relevant?

Well, it was relevant a week ago and it hasn't become irrelevant yet.

Septic wrote:

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 11:12 am

Septic wrote:
Hairball, you are being exceptionally inconsiderate!

How is that relevant?

Well, it was relevant a week ago and it hasn't become irrelevant yet.

Will you stop boring me now, please?

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:03 am Thesis: There are objective moral facts, thus morality is objective because Space & Time are Not Mind-Independent, but rather are conditioned upon a specific human-based science-physics FSR-FSK.

Does this mean if you have someone, a child, a person who left school before they took science/physics, they don't experience time? I mean, I am sure this is not what you mean, or is not intentionally entailed by what you mean, but it sounds like it would be. Likewise with Space.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:38 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:03 am Thesis: There are objective moral facts, thus morality is objective because Space & Time are Not Mind-Independent, but rather are conditioned upon a specific human-based science-physics FSR-FSK.

Does this mean if you have someone, a child, a person who left school before they took science/physics, they don't experience time? I mean, I am sure this is not what you mean, or is not intentionally entailed by what you mean, but it sounds like it would be. Likewise with Space.

I see what you're saying here.

So if space and time are allegedly "conditioned upon a specific human-based science-physics FSR-FSK", then how is it that people who have no contact with those FSKs experience space and time?

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:50 pm I see what you're saying here.

So if space and time are allegedly "conditioned upon a specific human-based science-physics FSR-FSK", then how is it that people who have no contact with those FSKs experience space and time?

Yes. I can see arguing that they are innate apriori. IOW not empirical conclusions: a la Kant. But not that one needs to have the knowledge of science-physics.

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:50 pm I see what you're saying here.

So if space and time are allegedly "conditioned upon a specific human-based science-physics FSR-FSK", then how is it that people who have no contact with those FSKs experience space and time?

I've never experienced either. Show me space; or time.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:54 pm Yes. I can see arguing that they are innate apriori. IOW not empirical conclusions: a la Kant. But not that one needs to have the knowledge of science-physics.

Or you can argue that they are synthetic a priori; or a posteriori doesn't really matter.

A coordinate system - a geometry. Useful concept for modeling stuff. Of course, there are many different coordinate systems and geometries possible such as the one we first get taught at school - Euclid's geometry. As well as all the other geometries Euclid couldn't even begin to imagine.

From a computational perspective space is just memory and time is just CPU clock cycles for manipulating memory; which is why algorithms have space and time complexity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_complexity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_complexity

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:36 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:03 am
Many scientists are accepting the DEMISE of Space-Time as a fundamental external objective reality; 15.57

Since Space & Time are fundamental to all of reality, therefore all of reality CANNOT be mind-independent but somehow is related to the human-mind via a human-based FSR-FSK.
AS such, philosophical realism [e.g. claims by PH and gang] that claim reality is mind-independent cannot be realistic; as I have claimed philosophical realism is illusory as driven by an evolutionary default.

Great link. However, what it's saying is not that space time isn't real, but that space time is emergent. Saying something is emergent is very different from saying it isn't real. I think you're once again reading as much of your own beliefs as you can into whatever words you can find scientists saying.

Separately from the context of this thread, I think the emergence of space time, or non-fundamental nature of space time, is a very very interesting topic with all sorts of implications.

Did you notice the term "reality" in the following;

"Many scientists are accepting the DEMISE of Space-Time as a fundamental external objective reality."

I have listened to many other related videos and they all have the same point, there is no real mind-independent time nor space. [as claimed by p-realists]

What is time or space must be conditioned upon a human-based science-physics-FSK. Since it is human-based [with body and mind] both time and space cannot be mind-independent in any real sense.

Note 'emergence' and realization are always conditioned upon human nature and the 13.5 billions years of conditions since the Big Bang.

Note this, referenced as above;
The world is a n-dimensional energy soup; what is time & space are conditioned upon the organism's mind in evolutionary time, in the case of humans, the human mind.
15.10