Philosophy Now Forum

the search for self in an age of uncertainty..
this certainly describes our age today....
what does it mean to be human given we have no idea
who we are in this age of uncertainty....

our difficulties stem from many sources....
that we have lost the certainties of ism's.
capitalism no longer works for us as religion
no longer works for us as faith has failed...
because what are you going to have faith in
and not be disappointed....for I believe in,
have faith in liberalism.. and I have been disappointed before,
and another may have faith in conservatism and is
currently being disappointed..... into what ism or ideology
should we have our "Salto mortale?" and therein lies our
age of uncertainty...

Through the various revolutions, scientific, philosophical,
social, economic and most importantly, the political
revolution brought about by both the American revolution
and the French revolution...

and what can we believe in today?

one of the Kantian questions is just that, "what can I believe in"
and any individual question that says ''I'' also says ''we''..
so individually and collectively, what can we believe in?
"what can we hope for? "what are we to do?" these of course
are other Kantian questions...and all of this comes back to the
question of goal... what goal or meaning can we find,
individually and then collectively.....and perhaps, perhaps
that is what is lost today... a sense of a goal or purpose,
both individually and collectively....science is very
important but it can only lead us too more of itself...
let us look at astronomy, it has no goal outside of learning more..
and when it learns more, it just keeps on going learning more..
and it cannot do anything else...there is no end or goal within
science/astronomy... it just keeps learning more... that is the entire
goal of science...and don't get me wrong, I believe
that what science does is very important and needs to
keep happening, but as far as finding a final goal or purpose,
science cannot help us....

and what of the human faiths that we have... in America today,
we have our faith in money, god, country, fame, material possessions,
power and let not forget the faith in the almighty gun...
and yet not one of these "faiths" lead us anywhere...
or has a goal or purpose... faith in country takes us nowhere...
it simply goes on... it has no purpose...

faith in money only leads to having money, nothing else..
and faith in guns leads only to violence for what else
is a gun good for? and we see, every single day, that the
faith in guns has brought about a violence in America that
hasn't been seen in decades...our faith in guns is just
another faith in a false god... it is quite clear that
the abundance of guns has brought about ever more violence
and will continue to bring us more and more violence... and
who exactly has faith in violence? only the violent...

the entire faith system of America has been built on
causes and beliefs that have no future or bring about any meaning
in our lives... we hold faith in things that we shouldn't hold faith
in because there is no future in those things....money, guns,
god, country are all causes with no future...

it is time to rethink, reevaluate what it means to be
an American or rethink what it means to be human....

instead of having faith in ism's or ideologies,
we might try something else... having faith in values.....
as a path into the future...in something that might lead
us into meaning and purpose....it is vastly easier to
hold faith in a cause or an ism.... it is pretty easy
to hold to the religions of guns/violence or country
or nationalism or god... and holding those faiths cost
us nothing... for they are empty and devoid of value
because they have no purpose of goal attached to them...
there is nothing beyond holding those causes... ask those
who hold the faith of god, country, guns/violence to
practice the courage of their convictions and they
have all kinds of excuses to avoid the practice
of their convictions.... look at Christians... ask
them to practice being Christian, to hold to
Christianity as a "way of life" and look how they run...
for Christianity as a ''way of life" isn't as the modern day
Christian does it, cherry pick which values and rules
of god, the bible they wish to follow... the bible and the word
of god is used to seek power and money.. and not an actual
engagement with either god or the bible....

for today Christians, an act like abortion isn't a religious one,
it is a political one.. and they react to this issue of abortion
within political terms, not religious terms... being pro-life isn't
a religious concept, but a political concept...and being political
isn't being religious...holding to the word of god is and must
be a religious action, not a political one...and this turning
a religious action into a political one is, in part, why
religions are in disarray today... they have lost the original point
of religions... to comfort the soul... and to seek out god.,..
but where is god in the political acts of banning abortions
and where is god in allowing guns in public area's and where
is god in pretending to be ''pro-life''.. taking a religious
idea and turning it into a political idea isn't about god,
but the political is about power and money.. not religion/or god..

our age of uncertainty has arisen, in part, by our turning concepts
of faith and religion into political terms... we look about life
and we see money, material possessions, power, fame..
we don't see an actual goal or purpose in life today...
we are in an age of uncertainty because our perspective
is skewered... what should be an religious act has become
a political act....

we have lost perspective in what is valuable and important
in our lives... and what is worse, is that we can't even tell
that we have lost our perspective in what it means to be
human or American.. to point out one example....

of course my haters will hate, for that is what haters do, but
tell me, what is actually important in this day and age?
what gives us meaning and purpose today? they have
no idea because they haven't given that idea 5 seconds of
thought...

so, tell us, what is actually important in this day and age?
what perspectives are the ones worth having and what perspectives
are not worth having? what should we be seeing and are not seeing,
and what should we believe in and why?

Kropotkin

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 5:30 pm faith in country takes us nowhere...
it simply goes on... it has no purpose...

I'm afraid the same could be said of you, Kropotkin.

Harbal wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 5:54 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 5:30 pm faith in country takes us nowhere...
it simply goes on... it has no purpose...

I'm afraid the same could be said of you, Kropotkin.

K: and as usual, Harbal brings us nothing in the way of
answers to my questions... just more hate... let us ignore
those whose only answer is hate... I wait for honest
answers to the questions of existence...
but one might say, but Kropotkin, you ignore me whenever
I answer... I am not the point.. the questions are..
what questions should you be engaged with, not who
you should be engaged with.. certainly not Kropotkin..
he is unimportant in the scheme of things....
but the questions, that is what matters......

Kropotkin

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 6:16 pm
K: and as usual, Harbal brings us nothing in the way of
answers to my questions... just more hate...

So you regard me as an agent of hate, do you, Kropotkin?

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 5:30 pm our difficulties stem from many sources....
that we have lost the certainties of ism's.

Some people have. Some people haven't. And some people have negative certainties. They aren't certain of any positive program, but they are certain that other people's programs are bad. I'd put you in that category. A kind of negative religion or faith.

capitalism no longer works for us

Who is the 'we' you are writing for. Capitalism is working for some. It is also working to different degrees. And Capitalism, in every country is changing.

as religion
no longer works for us as faith has failed...

Some people feel that way. It's pretty obvious others don't.

because what are you going to have faith in
and not be disappointed.

Some people aren't disappointed.

...for I believe in,
have faith in liberalism.. and I have been disappointed before,

So, you do have faith in it or you don't?

and another may have faith in conservatism and is
currently being disappointed..... into what ism or ideology
should we have our "Salto mortale?" and therein lies our
age of uncertainty..

.For many, sure. For many others, they aren't uncertain. You're certain about what -isms you don't like, in any case.

Through the various revolutions, scientific, philosophical,
social, economic and most importantly, the political
revolution brought about by both the American revolution
and the French revolution...

That seems like an incomplete sentence.

and what can we believe in today?

one of the Kantian questions is just that, "what can I believe in"
and any individual question that says ''I'' also says ''we''..

Not really. Because often we have had very different experiences. We can learn things that others cannot possibly have learned. This doesn't mean we must give up our belief because we cannot demonstrate what we have learned to others. Nor much they just accept our belief as right. We can't always get a we.

and what of the human faiths that we have... in America today,
we have our faith in money, god, country, fame, material possessions,
power and let not forget the faith in the almighty gun...
and yet not one of these "faiths" lead us anywhere...
or has a goal or purpose... faith in country takes us nowhere...
it simply goes on... it has no purpose...

It sounds like you beleive in objective values. At least I assume you know that other people value things differently than you do and do value things on your list and they also think these things lead them somewhere or otherwise are valuable. Yet, you say they don't lead anywhere. So, it seems like you know which values are right and which are wrong. Isn't this a form of faith?

faith in money only leads to having money, nothing else..

It leads to security, better health care, wider range of mate choices, the ability to take care of your children better and so on.

instead of having faith in ism's or ideologies,
we might try something else... having faith in values.....
as a path into the future...in something that might lead
us into meaning and purpose...

IOW a purpose you approve of.

.it is vastly easier to
hold faith in a cause or an ism.... it is pretty easy
to hold to the religions of guns/violence or country
or nationalism or god... and holding those faiths cost
us nothing... for they are empty and devoid of value
because they have no purpose of goal attached to them...
there is nothing beyond holding those causes... ask those
who hold the faith of god, country, guns/violence to
practice the courage of their convictions and they
have all kinds of excuses to avoid the practice
of their convictions.

Really? People who have faith in their country don't ever put their lives at risk for their country?
Like not in WW2 say? People who put faith in God don't serve in charities. And so on.
Does it matter to you if your generalizations match reality? And of course there are people who don't live up their values, whatever they are.

for today Christians, an act like abortion isn't a religious one,
it is a political one.. and they react to this issue of abortion
within political terms, not religious terms... being pro-life isn't
a religious concept, but a political concept...and being political
isn't being religious...holding to the word of god is and must
be a religious action, not a political one...and this turning
a religious action into a political one is, in part, why
religions are in disarray today...

Nearly everyone treats some of their moral values are political issues. Liberals certainly do that. Conservatives. The woke. The anti-woke. Who doesn't move their moral values into the public sphere. That's how murder got on the list of laws, for example. Anti-Discrimination laws and so on.

our age of uncertainty has arisen, in part, by our turning concepts
of faith and religion into political terms...

Tell me an age when this was not the case.

we look about life
and we see money, material possessions, power, fame..
we don't see an actual goal or purpose in life today...

You don't have the same values. That's it.

we are in an age of uncertainty because our perspective
is skewered... what should be an religious act has become
a political act....

Name the year this trend started. LOL.

we have lost perspective in what is valuable and important
in our lives..

.What you think others should also think is important.

*of course my haters will hate, for that is what haters do, but

tell me,

You're lecturing, you say things that don't make sense. You don't directly respond, but you pretend you do. You foster the splits between people and make them worse. I wouldn't say my reaction rises to hate, but irritation sure.

what is actually important in this day and age?
what gives us meaning and purpose today? they have
no idea because they haven't given that idea 5 seconds of
thought...

I can't speak for we like you do. You blithly speak as if you are speaking for everyone.

I can certainly answer about what is important to me.

But before we jump to the solutions, I thnk we need to dela with the problems in your fantasies here.

But, Kropotkin, all you do is raise questions, when what we need is answers, and if if you won't give us the answers, then who, O Great Kropotkin, then who?

Kropotkin Kropotkin Kropotkin Kropotkin
Kropotkin Kropotkin Kropotkin Kropotkin

Kropotkin
Kropotkin
Kropotkin
Kropotkin
Kropotkin

Harbal wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 8:11 pm Kropotkin Kropotkin Kropotkin Kropotkin
Kropotkin Kropotkin Kropotkin Kropotkin

Kropotkin
Kropotkin
Kropotkin
Kropotkin
Kropotkin

I remember myself as a Kropotkin. Aaaah, those were the good ol' days! I miss being a Kropotkin.

Inconsistency, that's the thorn ... in our (?) side? Have ya ever been a vaishya? I suggest you try it out. I haven't, may be I have, mem probs, but it looks so teachish. Plus, who knows, you just might end up dethroning the 2021 Jeff Bezos.

Wazzat? Are ya sure and this establishment doesn't accept less-than 100% currency.