Philosophy Now Forum

Could god have made physics be any way at all and still produce life? Then fine-tuning is irrelevant and proves nothing.

or...

Is life only possible with certain laws of physics? Then god is merely toying with a universe that exists with limitations beyond his control and is neither all knowing or all powerful.

only when the monetary penalty doesn't need adjusting will harmony be reached...

-Imp

Advocate wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 4:59 pm Could god have made physics be any way at all and still produce life? Then fine-tuning is irrelevant and proves nothing.

I suppose there are some people who think it proves a deity, but most people here use prove and proof incorrectly including you. But the qualities of the universe associated with fine tuning made many physicist very uncomfortable - not because they assumed it meant there was a deity, but because life seemed so fantastically unlikely. Some moved to multiverse positions, for example, to explain such an anomaly.

or...

Is life only possible with certain laws of physics? Then god is merely toying with a universe that exists with limitations beyond his control and is neither all knowing or all powerful.

No, that doesn't work. Life as scientists understand life and even can imagine life are possible within a very narrow range of conditions (as far as they know). It's within their understanding. Perhaps a deity could have managed to have life in all sorts of conditions, this just happens to be the one he or she made, and perhaps it's a multiverse with infinite other ways.

But even more important. Atheists tend to focus on the conceptions of a deity pulled from the Abrahamic religions and only in the interpretations of some, all the omni characteristics. There are other ways to describe a deity.

Another superb statement/question! The precision is mind-boggling to some and that speaks volumes.

I tru!st Advocate finds the thread suitably edifying thus far! It's an intelligent question. I am unable, however, to attach any intelligible meaning to any of the replies thus far received.

Extrapolating from extremophiles on Earth, cosmological modelling suggests that life could exist on worlds very much different to our own. In fact, we are yet to rule out the possibility that life exists on several planets and moons within our own solar system.

alan1000 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:32 pm I tru!st Advocate finds the thread suitably edifying thus far! It's an intelligent question. I am unable, however, to attach any intelligible meaning to any of the replies thus far received.

Extrapolating from extremophiles on Earth, cosmological modelling suggests that life could exist on worlds very much different to our own. In fact, we are yet to rule out the possibility that life exists on several planets and moons within our own solar system.

I don't think you understand the fine tuning arguments.
It's not about whether the earth is special, say. It is about the entire universe and that even tiny shifts in physical constants for example, and no life would be possible anywhere.

fine tuning arguments? fork that

-Imp

alan1000 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:32 pm I tru!st Advocate finds the thread suitably edifying thus far! It's an intelligent question. I am unable, however, to attach any intelligible meaning to any of the replies thus far received.

Extrapolating from extremophiles on Earth, cosmological modelling suggests that life could exist on worlds very much different to our own. In fact, we are yet to rule out the possibility that life exists on several planets and moons within our own solar system.

What most of you are ALL MISSING here is that EVERY 'thing' is 'alive' or that 'life' is everywhere.

Thinking or saying that 'life' is only associated to some 'things' is just expressing and putting a VERY LIMITED view and perspective on 'things'.

I suggest INSTEAD of LOOKING FOR 'life' on other planets or in other places 'you' LEARN, NOTICE, RECOGNIZE, and SEE that WHERE 'life' IS, EXACTLY.

'Life', it could be argued, is FAR MORE 'fine-tuned' than most RECOGNIZE and SEE, in the days when this is being written.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:57 pm

alan1000 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:32 pm I tru!st Advocate finds the thread suitably edifying thus far! It's an intelligent question. I am unable, however, to attach any intelligible meaning to any of the replies thus far received.

Extrapolating from extremophiles on Earth, cosmological modelling suggests that life could exist on worlds very much different to our own. In fact, we are yet to rule out the possibility that life exists on several planets and moons within our own solar system.

I don't think you understand the fine tuning arguments.
It's not about whether the earth is special, say. It is about the entire universe and that even tiny shifts in physical constants for example, and no life would be possible anywhere.

How are you defining the word 'life' here?

We must be precise as to why we're not precise. Fine-tuning is counterintuitve. Why did this boy I saw in a busy street throw away the only handkerchief he had?

Impenitent wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:01 am fine tuning arguments? fork that

-Imp

I think you mean fine tining.

siriusly tho that's crazy that something so unlikely would happen and then keep happening over and over again. cell division i mean. if u think of all the things that have to be justfucking right for that to happen, all the way up to the arrangement of the solar system with these little balls of periodic elements rotating around a ball of heat that turns in the middle. bruh. all the things that could have gone wrong here and none of em did. you're telling me lightening struck an amino acid one night and then all of a sudden there wuz complex molecules that would form up and then make copies of themselves from here on out?

cuuuuuh-mon man.

And u say 'well 13 billion years is a long time for a few practice runs'... I don't give a damn! The chances of the system falling apart at every moment are EXponentially higher.