Philosophy Now Forum

Posted: **Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:31 pm**

Hi, it's funny how one social media post leads you on to Google for a bit of info, then further down the rabbit hole of that particular subject! Happens to me a lot; and recently.

There was a quote by Spinoza on FB which lead me to read more about him, his life and philosophy on Wikipedia. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza) Part of the summary includes his understanding and explanation of pantheism (dictionary description, if you're not familiar with the term): "a doctrine which identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of God."

Reading further, I checked out the Wikipedia page for Pantheism, and read:

"In 2009, pantheism was mentioned in a Papal encyclical[68] and in a statement on New Year's Day, 2010,[69] criticizing pantheism for denying the superiority of humans over nature and seeing the source of man's salvation in nature.[68]"

The line: "...denying superiority of humans over nature" literally shocked me. I'm not here for religion-bashing, but wondering what your opinion is of this statement. To me, it implies that the Catholic Church regard humans superior to all other living things, and non-living things, including the whole universe. For me, that is wrong on so many counts.

It got me wondering how many people in positions of power agree with this statement, and led me to the conclusion that if many, no wonder the planet is being trashed. Do you agree or not, with my conclusion? And do you agree or disagree with the above statement, and if so, why?

Posted: **Tue Jan 31, 2023 3:12 am**

DavidJohnGriffin wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:31 pm Hi, it's funny how one social media post leads you on to Google for a bit of info, then further down the rabbit hole of that particular subject! Happens to me a lot; and recently.

There was a quote by Spinoza on FB which lead me to read more about him, his life and philosophy on Wikipedia. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza) Part of the summary includes his understanding and explanation of pantheism (dictionary description, if you're not familiar with the term): "a doctrine which identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of God."

Reading further, I checked out the Wikipedia page for Pantheism, and read:

"In 2009, pantheism was mentioned in a Papal encyclical[68] and in a statement on New Year's Day, 2010,[69] criticizing pantheism for denying the superiority of humans over nature and seeing the source of man's salvation in nature.[68]"

The line: "...denying superiority of humans over nature" literally shocked me. I'm not here for religion-bashing, but wondering what your opinion is of this statement. To me, it implies that the Catholic Church regard humans superior to all other living things, and non-living things, including the whole universe. For me, that is wrong on so many counts.

It got me wondering how many people in positions of power agree with this statement, and led me to the conclusion that if many, no wonder the planet is being trashed. Do you agree or not, with my conclusion? And do you agree or disagree with the above statement, and if so, why?

From what I gather, a large portion of Christianity holds a belief in "the superiority of humans over nature" or something similar - not just the Catholic Church. This would seem to be certainly true of all Christians who reject evolution for example.

Christianity especially appeals to those having self-centered and/or simplistic views.

Posted: **Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:10 am**

DavidJohnGriffin wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:31 pm Hi, it's funny how one social media post leads you on to Google for a bit of info, then further down the rabbit hole of that particular subject! Happens to me a lot; and recently.

There was a quote by Spinoza on FB which lead me to read more about him, his life and philosophy on Wikipedia. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza) Part of the summary includes his understanding and explanation of pantheism (dictionary description, if you're not familiar with the term): "a doctrine which identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of God."

Reading further, I checked out the Wikipedia page for Pantheism, and read:

"In 2009, pantheism was mentioned in a Papal encyclical[68] and in a statement on New Year's Day, 2010,[69] criticizing pantheism for denying the superiority of humans over nature and seeing the source of man's salvation in nature.[68]"

The line: "...denying superiority of humans over nature" literally shocked me. I'm not here for religion-bashing, but wondering what your opinion is of this statement. To me, it implies that the Catholic Church regard humans superior to all other living things, and non-living things, including the whole universe. For me, that is wrong on so many counts.

It got me wondering how many people in positions of power agree with this statement, and led me to the conclusion that if many, no wonder the planet is being trashed. Do you agree or not, with my conclusion? And do you agree or disagree with the above statement, and if so, why?

My first reaction is that the church is incorrect. Pantheism asserts something about God, and I am sure that is what they really don't like, not humans. That God is in everything (and possibly immanent in some versions of pantheism). But humans could still be the shiniest parts of nature. No, what they're angry about, I think, is what they would see as the sullying of God. They want God transcendent, not immanent.

But as PR it's a smart move. The pantheists are saying bad things about you.

As far as the Church talking about

the superiority of humans over nature

that's pretty central to Christianity. Humans having dominion over nature and then dichotomy between the earthly, the flesh, the material AND the transcendant, with the latter being all the good stuff. Humans can achieve transcendance and everything else in nature cannot. So, that's a cental Christian (and Abrahamist) tenet.

I mean one can be shocked in the sense that one thinks this is terrible. But it's not some recent idea in the church. It's there in scripture and informs a lot of the messages of Christianity.

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