Philosophy Now Forum

On the cross, when Jesus is present in such a horrible condition, the two theives who were also crucified got the same universal doubt that how the Lord in human form is crucified who is crying loudly asking "Oh! Lord! Why did you leave Me?" This scene will clearly establish the doubt in the heart of any human being that Jesus cannot be the Lord. The doubt comes with a main point that why the Lord was unable to protect Himself and that How can He protect others? But the doubter should also think the scene in which Lord Jesus asked a dead body to become alive. Only the Lord has the power to give the life. Thus we find both the contradicting concepts of the Lord and the human body of the Lord.

The concept of the Lord attracts the human beings. The concept of the human body tests the human beings and filters the real devotee out of them. The second thief believed Holy Jesus as the Lord even in that pathetic condition. Such devotion is great and real. He did not show this belief when he saw the Holy Jesus raising the dead body. When a girl loved the son of a king who is in the disguise of a beggar, such love is great. When the king declares himself as the king, every girl loves him to marry and become the queen. The thief did not ask any worldly desire. He could have asked Holy Jesus to give Him the life itself and Holy Jesus could have given it because He is still the Lord even on the cross. The thief asked only protection in the upper world and did not ask for any materialistic boon.

Thus he is certainly a higher devotee also. He did not see any miracle and believed Holy Jesus as the Lord, who placed Himself in such a worst situation. The human incarnation is a game of the Lord (Narayana) and human body (Nara). The thief showed correct understanding of the human incarnation. The internal Lord is great and the external human body follows all the natural rules. A blade can cut even the shirt of a king. Even though his shirt is cut the king does not loose his powers and quality of kindness. The thief approached the internal Lord and the internal Lord assured the thief. This shows how realized soul the thief is? That is the highest test for the faith in the spirituality and so the thief deserves complete grace of the Lord. The other thief got confused the Lord with the human body. Like all the other human beings he thought if the shirt of a king is torn, the king lost all his powers.

Gita says that even the highest criminal is blessed by the Lord if he is a real devotee (Apichet Sa duracharah…..). The Lord considers the faith and devotion as the criteria and not the qualities of the devotee. We pay for the contents in the cup and not for the colour or material of the cup. Kannappa, a hunter was given salvation by Lord Shiva. The Lord sees the selfless sacrifice and faith, which are the fruits of real devotion and real knowledge. When Lakshmana became unconcious Rama was weeping. Hanuman brought the Sanjeevi Hill and saved Lakshmana. Rama expressed His gratefulness to Hanuman. In this scene even the audience will believe that Hanuman is God and Rama is a devotee. But Hanuman Himself declared that He could do the service by the grace of the Lord Rama only. This is a test for His faith and faith is the fruit of determination that comes out from the divine knowledge. Sacrifice is fruit of the devotion or love. Lord tests your faith and your sacrifice so that you will know in what stage of divine knowledge and devotion you are.

It's just a feeling, but you probably haven't understood the message of Christianity via the life of Jesus. Of course what I construe Christianity to be is not what most Christians believe their religion is.

Agent Smith wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:25 am It's just a feeling, but you probably haven't understood the message of Christianity via the life of Jesus. Of course what I construe Christianity to be is not what most Christians believe their religion is.

What do you construe "christianity" to be?

Age wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:59 am

Agent Smith wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:25 am It's just a feeling, but you probably haven't understood the message of Christianity via the life of Jesus. Of course what I construe Christianity to be is not what most Christians believe their religion is.

What do you construe "christianity" to be?

As something (pace most other interpretations) down-to-earth and completely realistic.

Agent Smith wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:03 am

Age wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:59 am

Agent Smith wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:25 am It's just a feeling, but you probably haven't understood the message of Christianity via the life of Jesus. Of course what I construe Christianity to be is not what most Christians believe their religion is.

What do you construe "christianity" to be?

As something (pace most other interpretations) down-to-earth and completely realistic.

LOL okay.

Agent Smith wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:03 am

Age wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:59 am

Agent Smith wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:25 am It's just a feeling, but you probably haven't understood the message of Christianity via the life of Jesus. Of course what I construe Christianity to be is not what most Christians believe their religion is.

What do you construe "christianity" to be?

As something (pace most other interpretations) down-to-earth and completely realistic.

In fact, Christians and Muslims are actually cousins because both are the two branches of same ancestor Abraham. One branch was headed by Ishmael, which became Islam. The other branch headed by Isaac became Christians. Muslims recognize Jesus also as the precedent prophet to Mohammad. Mohammad was very much pained at the crucifixion of Jesus and hence resisted the concept of human incarnation, which can never be relished by the co-human beings due to ego and jealousy. This is not difference of policy but it is due to the heart felt pain by Mohammad about Jesus.

Hindus were always co-operative with every religion and you can find the peaceful co-existence of Christianity and Islam in India with out any violence. In fact, Hinduism itself is a mini model of Universality of Religions. There are several sub-religions in Hinduism like Shaivism, Vaishnavism, Shaktayism etc., which co-existed based on unity in diversity. In fact, Shankara co-related all the sub-religions and brought the unity based on single God called Brahman appearing in different forms like Shiva, Vishnu, Shakti etc.

The same process of unity of religions in one region was carried on by Mohammad, who established the concept of single God called as Allah. Of course, Shankara brought such unity by powerful logic and debate, where as Mohammad brought the same unity through powerful sword. The powerful knowledge is represented by sharp sword as said in Gita [Chchittvaa jnaanaasinaa….].

According to the circumstances and the mental level of the then existing people, knowledge or sword was used. In the time of Shankara, the quarrel was between scholars of various religions through arguments. In the time of Mohammad, the quarrel was between the heads of various religions through swords. The final result was one and the same.

Good post. I feel all religions boil down to salvation of one kind or another. I don't know how to explain all of 'em except that they all seem to be saying one thing and one thing only - there's more.

Agent Smith wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:29 am Good post. I feel all religions boil down to salvation of one kind or another. I don't know how to explain all of 'em except that they all seem to be saying one thing and one thing only - there's more.

There are many religions on this earth, each of them associated with different cultures and languages and each of them suitable to people with different levels of maturity. Diversity already exists among people. Hence, God has to descend in the forms of different Human Incarnations to suit to these different people belonging to different cultures and regions. The same subject of spiritual knowledge has been preached by God in different languages, following different cultures and using different ways of preaching to become the different religions of the world.

dattaswami wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:04 am

Agent Smith wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:29 am Good post. I feel all religions boil down to salvation of one kind or another. I don't know how to explain all of 'em except that they all seem to be saying one thing and one thing only - there's more.

There are many religions on this earth, each of them associated with different cultures and languages and each of them suitable to people with different levels of maturity. Diversity already exists among people. Hence, God has to descend in the forms of different Human Incarnations to suit to these different people belonging to different cultures and regions. The same subject of spiritual knowledge has been preached by God in different languages, following different cultures and using different ways of preaching to become the different religions of the world.

God has descended (in the past). It's important to ask why all good things seem to fall from the sky?

Agent Smith wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:24 am

dattaswami wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:04 am

Agent Smith wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:29 am Good post. I feel all religions boil down to salvation of one kind or another. I don't know how to explain all of 'em except that they all seem to be saying one thing and one thing only - there's more.

There are many religions on this earth, each of them associated with different cultures and languages and each of them suitable to people with different levels of maturity. Diversity already exists among people. Hence, God has to descend in the forms of different Human Incarnations to suit to these different people belonging to different cultures and regions. The same subject of spiritual knowledge has been preached by God in different languages, following different cultures and using different ways of preaching to become the different religions of the world.

God has descended (in the past). It's important to ask why all good things seem to fall from the sky?

The main purpose of God in human form is to give right direction in worldly life (Pravrutti) and spiritual life (Nivrutti) for the humanity, which is very very important. All the efforts are wasted if the direction is wrong and the post of Director is very important in any institution since he gives right direction to all for its success. The right direction is always given by the true spiritual knowledge enlightened with perfect analysis in all directions.

The identification must be related to serve your important need. Hence, the Veda says that the only identification is the excellent spiritual knowledge (Prajnaanam), which is true (Satyam) and elaborate due to perfect analysis (Anantam). The Gita also says that God will enter directly in preaching spiritual knowledge (Jnaaniitvaatmaiva), which is very delicate and can be easily twisted for misinterpretation.

You need not worry about other defects found in Him since such defects in human form of God have their own program like repelling undeserving devotees, becoming close to defective people for their uplift, testing the faith of true devotees etc. Even if the preacher is a human being only, you need not worry about his defects since he will be punished by nature or God for his defects. You have approached a doctor for the cure of disease in your lungs. The doctor advised you to stop smoking immediately.

The doctor is also observed by you while smoking. You shall not reject the doctor and his advice saying that how a doctor, himself smoking, advice you to stop smoking! The doctor will be punished by the laws of nature for his smoking and he shall be worried more about it being a doctor! Why shall you spoil your health by leaving that doctor, who is an excellent specialist for lungs? Perhaps, you are telling like this to continue your smoking!

The Veda also speaks about two other identifications by saying that i) God is embodiment of love (Raso vai sah) in order to encourage the devotion of devotees and ii) God can do any miracle (Satyakaamah) to give proof to atheist if He feels that he can be reformed by a miracle. A demon does miracles to project himself with ego and such miracle is also from the grace of God only expressed for his rigid devotion.

Our views are congruent on some matters and not on others. That's not to say you're wrong in any way though. So you're a theist? How did you come to be so mon ami?

Agent Smith wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:58 am Our views are congruent on some matters and not on others. That's not to say you're wrong in any way though. So you're a theist? How did you come to be so mon ami?

God is giving experience to us in every walk of life about His existence. But, such experiences become weak in course of time due to the petty minds of the human beings. The human mind always takes logic and interprets such experiences as mere accidental situations. Therefore the faith of the theists is not strong. The human preachers are unable to answer the doubts of these human beings and this further weakens the faith. Therefore, God comes down in the form of a human being as the divine preacher.

Thus, there is a bare neccesity for such incarnation. Veda says ‘Yat Saakshat Aparokshat Brahma’, which means that Brahman comes down before the eyes of the human beings. Gita also says ‘Maanusheem Tanumaasritam’ which means that Brahman comes down as a human being. But the human body follows the rules of the nature and is not different from any other human body. The shirt of a king is not different from any other shirt.

It can be cut with the help of a blade like any other shirt. The speciality is in the king but not in the shirt. If God wishes, He could take the human body, which has neither birth nor death. It can be a divine body, which appears before all the human beings at different places and preaches, in different languages in the sametime. But, such creation of divine body means that God is going beyond the rules of the nature, which are created by God

dattaswami wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:55 am On the cross, when Jesus is present in such a horrible condition, the two theives who were also crucified got the same universal doubt that how the Lord in human form is crucified who is crying loudly asking "Oh! Lord! Why did you leave Me?"

I'm Brian - and so is my wife!!!

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:01 pm

dattaswami wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:55 am On the cross, when Jesus is present in such a horrible condition, the two theives who were also crucified got the same universal doubt that how the Lord in human form is crucified who is crying loudly asking "Oh! Lord! Why did you leave Me?"

I'm Brian - and so is my wife!!!

ffs!! I'M BRIAN!!!

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:08 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:01 pm

dattaswami wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:55 am On the cross, when Jesus is present in such a horrible condition, the two theives who were also crucified got the same universal doubt that how the Lord in human form is crucified who is crying loudly asking "Oh! Lord! Why did you leave Me?"

I'm Brian - and so is my wife!!!

ffs!! I'M BRIAN!!!

No.
I AM BRIAN..
Brian Spartacus.