Philosophy Now Forum

1) I am giving the overall picture of the entire spiritual knowledge. God is unimaginable and the entire worldly logic fails to yield even the slightest understanding about His nature. This absolute God is the ultimate reality and remains only one in the past, present and future. That absolute God created this entire world for the sake of His entertainment. This created world is essentially unreal, but it simultaneously becomes real appearing with full clarity to God. It happens due to the unimaginable power of the absolute God. The absolute God is beyond this imaginable world in which the imaginable soul is a tiny part. Both the world and the soul have the same nature. Both are essentially unreal to God but they simultaneously appear fully real and clear to Him. They constitute the relative reality. Since both the world and the soul are the same relative reality, the world is real for the soul. The world is not actually as real as God. God is the absolute reality. If creation too were an equally-real absolute reality, God would not have been able to perform any miracle involving creation, control, change, destruction and so on in the world.

2) Unimaginable events, called miracles, are perceived by souls. These miracles are the authority and evidence based on which the existence of the unimaginable nature or the unimaginable God can be inferred. The boundary of this relatively-real world cannot be reached by any imagination. If the boundary were reached by the soul’s imagination, it would mean that the soul’s imagination has touched the unimaginable God. Space is the essence of the relatively-real world. So, it means that it is impossible for the soul’s imagination to reach the boundary of space since it would mean touching the unimaginable God. Touching the boundary of the sea means touching the land. If one goes backward along the trail of smoke emitted by a fire and reaches the end of the smoke, one has touched the fire. Space or the relatively-real world is like the smoke, while the fire is like God. Since the soul’s imagination cannot touch the unimaginable God, the boundary of the universe or space also cannot be touched by the soul’s imagination. It means that God is beyond space. He has no spatial dimensions and hence, He is unimaginable. This universe is finite for God since the omniscient God knows its boundary, even though it is unknowable for any soul. This is another practical authority for the existence of the unimaginable God apart from miracles.

3) The cause is the unimaginable God and the product is the imaginable creation including imaginable souls. In worldly logic, all examples of cause and effect are imaginable. Imaginable products are generated only from imaginable causes. So, the link between the cause and effect, which is the mechanism of generation, is also imaginable. But in the case of God and the world, the cause is unimaginable while the product is imaginable. Hence, the mechanism of generation must also be unimaginable. No other example of this kind is found in the imaginable worldly logic of souls. The unimaginable God, who is entertained by this world, also enters into the world like a spectator of a drama entering into the drama as an actor. The main reason for God’s entry into the world is that souls need His direction. The unimaginable God merges with the first imaginable energetic body, which has its own soul or relative awareness.

This is the process of incarnation. This First Incarnation of God is called Īśvara. Īśvara further becomes other Energetic and Human Incarnations by identifying with other energetic and living human bodies. The Incarnation results purely by the will of God and not by the effort of the soul. Hence, the Incarnation is called ‘descended God’ and not ‘ascended soul’. The unimaginable God has Unimaginable Awareness due to absence of inert energy and a nervous system, which are essential for generating the relative awareness in human beings or energetic beings. Unimaginable Awareness is the unimaginable God Himself since two unimaginable items cannot coexist. So, we can say that this Unimaginable Awareness merges with the relative awareness of selected energetic or human being so that that soul becomes the absolute God as stated by Śaṅkara. Rāmānuja and Madhva referred to the first such soul existing in an energetic body (First Incarnation) as the ultimate God, whom they called Nārāyaṇa (Īśvara).

4) In the upper worlds, God is present in the form of Energetic Incarnations. On earth, He is present as Human Incarnations. God chooses to incarnate in each type of world in a medium that is common with the souls present in that world. Thus, Energetic Incarnations are meant for souls in energetic bodies in the upper world while Human Incarnations are meant for human beings on earth. The common energetic or human medium between God and the souls in that world enables God to conveniently mix with the souls. Along with this tremendous merit, the common medium between God and souls also has a tremendous defect. It is like a horrible poison being associated with divine nectar. The defect is that there is always tremendous repulsion between common media. Due to this, the human being neglects the Human Incarnation here and the same soul, after death and after entering into an energetic body, neglects the Energetic Incarnation in the upper worlds. By this, the soul misses the mediated God here as well as there. For a human being, the Human Incarnation and for an energetic being, an Energetic Incarnation are the most relevant to get spiritual guidance.

Mm-hm. That's apophatic theology. I know it when I see it. One avoids having to be clear about what one means about 'god' by claiming that anything about 'god' is unimaginable (except for this fact), and therefore all statements about 'god' can only be obscure and ambiguous.

It's a win win. You can prove that 'god' exists by proving that proof is impossible.

You'd be like: proof is impossible, this must mean that a 'god' exists that can't be proved, or else there wouldn't be any possibility for the impossibility of proof. There is an impossibility of proof, tho. Ergo, 'god' exists.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:31 pm Mm-hm. That's apophatic theology. I know it when I see it. One avoids having to be clear about what one means about 'god' by claiming that anything about 'god' is unimaginable (except for this fact), and therefore all statements about 'god' can only be obscure and ambiguous.

It's a win win. You can prove that 'god' exists by proving that proof is impossible.

You'd be like: proof is impossible, this must mean that a 'god' exists that can't be proved, or else there wouldn't be any possibility for the impossibility of proof. There is an impossibility of proof, tho. Ergo, 'god' exists.

In this world several miracles happen. The miracle is unimaginable but still it exists. The boundary of this Universe is also unimaginable, but it must exist. Therefore, the proof of the existence of unimaginable item exists in this world.

In fact to give the proof of the existence of unimaginable nature, God created this unlimited Universe with unimaginable boundary. The same God shows various miracles in this world so that the existence of unimaginable nature is established; thereby the existence of unimaginable God is also established by the extension of the concept.

The word ''GOD'' is proof that ''GOD'' exists.

Imagine that!

Would be hard to unimagine that which is imagined.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:58 pm The word ''GOD'' is proof that ''GOD'' exists.

Imagine that!

Would be hard to unimagine that which is imagined.

Ad-infinitum

God has no beginning and no end because God is unimaginable. The beginning and the end must be also unimaginable for an unimaginable item. The creator cannot be any item of the creation. If creator becomes creation, there must be some other creator for this creator to become the creation. Ad-infinitum (Anavastha) results. Science disproved some conclusions of the earlier logic and this should not be misunderstood as refusing God. God is in no way touched because the earlier logic also was dealing with only the analysis of created items. Tarka means the analysis of the items of creation, which are indicated and understood by their corresponding names or words (Tarkyante Padarthah Asminniti….). God is beyond all the words and cannot be the understood meaning of any word and therefore, logic cannot touch God.

dattaswami wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 2:26 pm God is beyond all the words and cannot be the understood meaning of any word and therefore, logic cannot touch God.

Concepts are known.

'God' is a concept known.

Can that which is known as a concept, know itself as the concept? Can a concept know anything?

Can there be any thing other than concepts known that do not know anything?

Can there be any thing beyond a concept known?

How can the concept known as God, be beyond the word itself?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 4:09 pm

dattaswami wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 2:26 pm God is beyond all the words and cannot be the understood meaning of any word and therefore, logic cannot touch God.

Concepts are known.

'God' is a concept known.

Can that which is known as a concept, know itself as the concept? Can a concept know anything?

Can there be any thing other than concepts known that do not know anything?

Can there be any thing beyond a concept known?

How can the concept known as God, be beyond the word itself?

In this world itself, unimaginable events called as miracles are seen by naked eyes and hence, there must be the source of these miracles, which is called as unimaginable God. Therefore, the unimaginable God has perception-authority, which is the basis for all authorities. Unimaginable means beyond imagination or logical analysis. Anything beyond space is unimaginable because any item beyond space does not have spatial dimensions and hence, volume. An item without volume can never be imagined by anybody even after concentrating for millions of years. Hence, we say that the unimaginable God is beyond the boundary of space or world. This concept must be kept in the mind of every human being so that one should know that nobody can escape the punishment to be given by the unimaginable God (in unimaginable ways using unimaginable power) for the sins done by the soul even though it is escaping the law here through its over-intelligence and trickish talent.

Unimaginable God and unimaginable power are not separate as in the case of imaginable items (like sun and sunlight) because two unimaginable items can never exist. Any number of unimaginable items makes only one unimaginable item. Nobody can say that one unimaginable item is fighting with another unimaginable item! Hence, when we say that the unimaginable God existing beyond the boundary of space or universe is showing miracles (unimaginable powers) in the space or universe, it does not mean that unimaginable God is different from the unimaginable power because God is beyond space and His power is in the space or world and hence, both are different. Both are not different since there can’t be unimaginable items more than one. This means that the unimaginable God exists beyond space and also can enter the space to show perceptional proof to the human beings existing in the space or world.

Whether unimaginable God exists beyond the boundary of space or within the space, its physical existence is immaterial, which is not its inherent nature. ‘Beyond space’ means not the sense of physical area only. It also means beyond spatial dimensions or volume so that one can never imagine it. When it exists beyond the boundary of space, you can mean that: i) It is unimaginable having no spatial dimensions and also ii) It exists beyond the physical area of space. When it exists in the space, you can mean that: i) It is unimaginable having no spatial dimensions, and also, ii) It exists in the physical area of space or world. Having no spatial dimensions is its inherent nature (SwarupaLakshanam). Existing beyond space or within the space is associated nature (TatasthaLakshanam). Existence of an item having no spatial dimensions within the space is possible for its unimaginable power. We are using unimaginable God and unimaginable power as two entities only for clear understanding of souls habituated to the imaginable domain (in which possessor of the power and power are viewed separately) and such difference does not actually exist in the item.

dattaswami wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:29 pmMany unwritten words to self.

Selling yourself as and through writing a love letter to yourself to make yourself appear appealing.

Like watercolour paint written upon a flowing river.

I am the consummate artist I draw upon my imagination.

Is the I in Art or is the Art in I