Philosophy Now Forum

Due to a recent event, (explained later) has me wondering....

There seems to me to be two paths, two ways to believe......

The first path, is to believe... as Kierkegaard said, the "leap of faith"...
but has been noted, the faith, the object of belief is what, exactly?
The object of faith is something that will also be socially,
politically, economically and philosophically acceptable to the state,
the society, the church, and that particular civilization....

If we live in a democracy, we are far more likely to believe in
a democracy, then a monarchy.... or if we live within a certain
religion, we are far more likely to hold that religion.. if we live
in a Muslim country, we are more likely to hold the faith of our
birth country...to be Muslim...
and all of this is known, and certainly not in doubt... but what drives
this need for a belief in the first place?

Why believe instead of not believing in the faith of our childhood?
Why this need for faith in, something?

Which leads us to our second path of existence...
the path to not holding the "faith" of our society, our state,
our civilization? To live in a "Christian" country and not hold to,
or not to believe in the faith of our birth country... to live in
a Muslim country and not to hold that faith.. for our belief and
faith are bound to our birth country.... We are far more likely to
hold beliefs and faiths of our birth country... So, why this second path?

As an American, I am expected, supposed to hold certain values,
(values are beliefs) and what if I don't? According to the MAGA crowd,
to be a "real" American, I am expected to hold certain values and beliefs....
to hold that IQ45 is the next coming of god himself.. is one such belief..
you know, to be a "real" American...

So, we have two such possible paths (of course there are more than two
paths, but for my purposes, I only need two paths)

One path, to believe and the other path, to not believe...
but once again, I ask to dig deeper... why should we believe?
why take K. "leap of faith?" "A leap into faith" as I call it...

The bottom line is, why have faith as opposed to not having faith?

It comes down to what I call "the need for certainty"... human beings
have a need for certainty... as a parent, I can tell you that nothing
frightens a child more than uncertainty... a child would rather accept
a false certainty than have any doubts or uncertainty...
and adults are no different... most adults rather cling to a false
certainty than having doubts or uncertainties ....

We, as human beings, would rather have a "leap of faith" rather
than being faced with doubts or uncertainty....
and the last 200 years have been "years of uncertainty"
the history of the last 200 years, in terms of our world, has
lead to widespread doubt and uncertainty....

Let us examine one such event that has brought us into doubt
and uncertainty.... The Holocaust...the very event of the
Holocaust has brought into doubt, several concepts and
beliefs of human beings... What does it mean to be ethical or
moral in the face of Auschwitz? What does it mean to believe in
god in light of Auschwitz? The events of the Holocaust should force
us to doubt everything we hold to be true about being human....
but as yet, there has not been a true accounting of who we are
as human beings in light of Auschwitz... We continue to act as if
the Holocaust never happened because we can explain it away
as a "German" problem or in terms of a charismatic leader like
Hitler... but we can't explain Auschwitz as a "German" problem...
It is a human problem and not just a certain people, a certain
time and place problem...or have you forgotten Abu Ghraib or
Guantanamo Bay?

We have some sort of certainty of what it means to be human, but
given historical events like the Holocaust or Abut Ghraib, should we
be so secure in our "faith?" in human beings or existence?

What confuses me is the "faith" that millions have in the
ism's of human beings.. nationalism, communism, Catholicism,
bigotry and prejudice.. or in one word, MAGA.... It is the "faith" that
people have in these Ism's, when the events over the last 200 years call
into question what these Ism's can mean to us....

The events of the last 200 years has called into question as to
what it means to be a human being, what it means to be a believer
in god, what it means to hold to a religion, what it means to
hold to Ism's like nationalism and questions of faith...

So, what I am calling for is not a "leap of faith" into some sort of
faith, be it a faith like religion or god or even the secular faiths
that so dominate our world today.. like Nationalism or communism
or capitalism or democracy or even in our faith that science will
find a "cure" for what ails us today, like "Global Warming" or
perhaps our greatest threat, which is "income inequality"

It is not in the faiths of our fathers or faith in country or faith in some
Ism or ideology that will save us... (in his last interview with Der Spiegel,
Heidegger said, ("Only a god can save us now")

The place we must use to challenge ourselves and find our answers,
must be the one place that frighten human beings the most,
in doubt and uncertainty.... we can no longer depend on the
usual suspects of faith, of faith in country or god or an ism like
capitalism, in which to find answers... for what have those usual
answers given us terms of solutions to our vexing problems today?

No answers that I can spot...and Kropotkin, why doubt and uncertainty?

Because in doubt and uncertainty, we can, at last, be honest about
what it means to be human, we can be honest that our faith in
god, country, isms, are false faiths that have no answers for what ails
us today.... there are no solutions in the old faiths/ism's... because if
there were solutions in those ism's and faiths, there would have been
tried and have worked...

In that old, and untrue saying of Einstein,

"The definition of insanity: is doing the same thing over and over again,
and expecting different result?

If we try the same thing over and over again, faith, country, god, capitalism,
religion... and it doesn't solve a thing, why do we keep doing that
same thing over again, and each time, expecting different results?

We must go to the one place where human beings are afraid to go,
and that is within doubt and uncertainty...

can anyone say, Descartes?

Kropotkin

and the event that lead me to my own doubts and uncertainty,
a recent death of a coworker.. 12 years younger than me....

Kropotkin

But Kropotkin, you are wrong....

Ok, what problem does faith in god solve?

What problem does faith in capitalism solve?

How does one having faith help us to understand the Holocaust?

How does faith in capitalism help us think about Auschwitz?

Kropotkin

The "ISM'S" of existence, the capitalism and communism and nationalism,
Catholicism and Hinduism and a vast array of Ism's and ideologies,
dominate our modern world..

The fact is our Ism's and ideologies of today are a reflection of the
morals and values we hold, both individually and collectively....
To call oneself MAGA is to hold a set of morals and values that
reflect who you are morally and ethically....
it isn't a political statement to call oneself MAGA, but it is a moral
statement, an ethical statement....

and what does your political ism say about your morals, ethics?

Kropotkin

And I can hear some ask, but Kropotkin, why do you hold to
doubt and uncertainty?

In doubt and uncertainty comes possibilities that do not exist within faith
and certainty...

For example, within faith and certainty, there is but one answer and one
answer only... in religious faith, there is god and only god... Allahu Akbar...
meaning "god is great" and the Jewish answer, "I am that I am" or the
traditional English translation... "I will be what I am" or another Jewish
possibility is "Yahweh".....

In certainty lies complacency, smugness, satisfaction, hubris, ego, pretensions....
and each one of these is an enemy of pursuing the truth...
in hubris for example, there is but one truth and I hold that
truth..... it never occurs to one in complacency or hubris, that they
might be wrong or not to hold the truth...

I would much rather be within doubt and uncertainty than be
complacent or follow hubris....

it is not enough to be following a path, one has to know where
that path begins.. in what state? Hubris, honesty, complacency,
anger, love....as with any journey, if one wants to complete
a journey, you have to know where you start from as well as knowing
where you want to end up..... a journey from the wrong starting point,
leads us to the wrong place...

I have described it this way...in regard to Zen and in regard to our growth
as human beings..

Before Zen, the mountains are calm, and the sea a mirror and the river flows
in its banks...

during Zen, the mountains dance and the sea rises and blows and the river
overflows its banks....

and after Zen, the mountains are calm and the sea, a mirror,
and the river flows in its banks...

And the time we learn anything of value, is during the moment of Zen,
which is the time of doubt and uncertainty and confusion...
Whither you believe it or not, but the time we human beings
make our greatest understanding of who we are, begins in the
time of Zen or in doubt and uncertainty... you might say, Kropotkin,
that didn't happen to me... and I believe you are rewriting history..
personal history...something that everyone does... even the
great Kropotkin ...

all growth, all growth needs doubt and uncertainty for that growth
to take place... you need doubt and uncertainty for you to grow and
become... that is the only path...

Kropotkin

Existence is communication.
Therefore the path of existence is communication itself.

Thought is communication too.

However, it is insufficient communication, the other is also needed to effectively walk the path.

Either all or none are saved.

Even if opening up to confrontation with the other implies the risk of suffering.

However, it seems to me that your writing is still self-referential.

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 4:39 pm But Kropotkin, you are wrong....

Ok, what problem does faith in god solve?

What problem does faith in capitalism solve?

How does one having faith help us to understand the Holocaust?

How does faith in capitalism help us think about Auschwitz?

Kropotkin

when it comes to WWII and what happened to the Jews. i honestly believe it’s about their relationship with the God of Israel. This is a people that have been spread out all over the western world since 125 ad and was called back by the Zionist since 1897 or 8, not sure, so for forty years. Hitler even gave them a year to leave Germany, then the night of the broken glass happened in 38 and for the next 7 years they suffered probably the worst time in their history then 3 years later they have a nation again. Also, it was Einstein who was a jew, that not only provided the knowledge to make the atom bomb he encouraged Roosevelt to start making one because the Nazis were doing the same. So in the western part of the world, it was the Jews who got the worst of it and it was a Jew who actually ended the war with Japan.

Part of the age of enlightenment’s influence in Europe in the 17 and 18 hundreds was the “Jewish question” or problem, that was a political issue in those days. Hence the “final solution” claimed by the Nazis. So if you are of the mind that “the enlightenment” was of a moral high ground, you might think again on that one. Also it was why the U.N. agreed to establish the Figtree state, Israel. That was their solution to the Jewish question.
Which is not unusual for Israel’s history, they were destroyed by Babylon then established by Cyrus giving the Jews permission to rebuild the temple then Rome trashed them and now they await permission to build the temple.