Philosophy Now Forum

INFINITY
Infinity appears in many equations.
Examples:
1-For light at constant speed (c) in vacuum, time is "frozen" (eternal situation).
2-When the Schrodinger (Ψ) wave - function ''collapses" the situation is infinite/eternal.
3-Beyond the event horizon of a black hole, time will stop (eternal situation)
But there is a scientific motto: "If you get infinity (∞) in an equation it's usually a sign that you've made a mistake".
Nature doesn't make mistakes.
Mistakes are made by those who, instead of understanding "what infinity is", avoid the concept of "infinity".
“Nature does nothing uselessly.” /Aristotle/

Thanks for opening this topic.

Infinity is a limit concept.

That is, it is a necessary concept, one cannot do without it, but at the same time unthinkable for real.
The infinite is in fact an open idea.
Which cannot be completed.

It is the negation of the finite.
A negation which, however, produces nothing but a suspension of thought.

The infinite is therefore not real but it is a necessity of rational thought.

Light is not in the infinity of time, but it has no time.
Its reality is timeless.
For the photon, no time has ever passed since the birth of the universe.

A serious misunderstanding of our age is precisely that of considering the infinite as something existing.
A nihilistic nonsense.

bobmax wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:46 pm A serious misunderstanding of our age is precisely that of considering the infinite as something existing.

The infinite does indeed "exist."

It exists in the form of the unbounded (limitless/barrierless) void of absolute nothingness represented by the blackened area surrounding this fanciful depiction of the universe...



Infinity can be visualized as a literally existing outer void that will forever "make room" for the ever-expanding "somethingness" of what we call "reality."

Indeed, even if the estimated 92 billion light year diameter of the bubble-like reality of our universe (represented by the image above) was endlessly (infinitely) replicated,...

(as is suggested in the "Many Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics)

...the infinite void of absolute nothingness would never run out of room to accommodate each new universe.

So, no, it is not a serious misunderstanding to think of infinity as "existing" in a visualizable context.
_______

socrat44 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:27 pm INFINITY
Infinity appears in many equations.
Examples:
1-For light at constant speed (c) in vacuum, time is "frozen" (eternal situation).

The word 'time' refers to the measured distance between perceived events.

How that distance is measured is in relation to 'light'. Therefore, from the perspective of 'light', or a 'photon', itself, there is NO 'distance'.

The 'measured distance between one perceived event to another perceived event' does NOT 'freeze', but because absolutely EVERY thing is relative to the observer, where one IS, and what they are doing, there can be a PERCEPTION of 'freezing' but EVERY thing is moving and/or changing. And, a thing moving or changing can move/change forever. Which is thee True eternal situation.

socrat44 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:27 pm 2-When the Schrodinger (Ψ) wave - function ''collapses" the situation is infinite/eternal.
3-Beyond the event horizon of a black hole, time will stop (eternal situation)

'Time', the 'measured distance between perceived events' does NOT stop, but because there is NO light and NOTHING ELSE, there is NO 'OTHER' perceived event from which to measure the distance from the first event (horizon, if you like).

And, the 'singularity' beyond the event horizon is NOT an eternal thing NOR an eternal event, as there IS 'a beginning'.

socrat44 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:27 pm But there is a scientific motto: "If you get infinity (∞) in an equation it's usually a sign that you've made a mistake".

And, 'science', itself, has NEVER made mistakes, NOR false, wrong, and incorrect claims before, right?

socrat44 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:27 pm Nature doesn't make mistakes.

Nature is NEVER 'right' either.

Nature just does, and, Nature is just what IS.

socrat44 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:27 pm Mistakes are made by those who, instead of understanding "what infinity is", avoid the concept of "infinity".
“Nature does nothing uselessly.” /Aristotle/

USING human beings Wrongly IS 'misuse', and, 'misuse' is ABUSE. But people can NOT USE 'things' properly NOR correctly if they do NOT YET, consciously, KNOW what the purpose for 'things' ARE.

So, NO adult human being can say, correctly, "that they do NOT abuse children, human beings, nor Life, Itself", unless, OF COURSE, they can INFORM 'us' of what is the PURPOSE of 'children', 'human beings', and of 'Life', Itself.

Adult human beings USE children Wrongly, and one way this is demonstrated, among the countless others, is by TEACHING children that 'infinity' does NOT exist.

There is a purpose and a meaning for absolutely EVERY thing. Uncovering and discovering, and/or learning and understanding what the purpose is for EVERY thing, then SEEING, EXACTLY, the purpose of Nature, or Everything, starts becoming CRYSTAL CLEAR.

Understanding WHY 'I/Nature' EXIST also becomes CRYSTAL CLEAR and, consciously, KNOWN, as well.

bobmax wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:46 pm Thanks for opening this topic.

Infinity is a limit concept.

That is, it is a necessary concept, one cannot do without it, but at the same time unthinkable for real.
The infinite is in fact an open idea.
Which cannot be completed.

It is the negation of the finite.
A negation which, however, produces nothing but a suspension of thought.

The infinite is therefore not real but it is a necessity of rational thought.

Light is not in the infinity of time, but it has no time.
Its reality is timeless.
For the photon, no time has ever passed since the birth of the universe.

Thinking or BELIEVING that the Universe BEGAN only arises in those of VERY LIMITED thinking, and thus of VERY IRRATIONAL thought. EXACTLY like those of 'religious BELIEF' who BELIEVED the earth was at the center of the Universe and that the sun revolved around the earth. Their BELIEFS STOP them from SEEING and/or LEARNING what thee ACTUAL Truth REALLY IS.

bobmax wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:46 pm serious misunderstanding of our age is precisely that of considering the infinite as something existing.
A nihilistic nonsense.

Now, here we have NO MORE CLEARER, and first hand, EXAMPLE of BELIEF AT WORK, and HOW BELIEF will CLOSE and SHUT a person off COMPLETELY. EXACTLY like BELIEF did back when those BELIEVED the sun revolved around the earth.

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:09 pm

bobmax wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:46 pm A serious misunderstanding of our age is precisely that of considering the infinite as something existing.

The infinite does indeed "exist."

It exists in the form of the unbounded (limitless/barrierless) void of absolute nothingness represented by the blackened area surrounding this fanciful depiction of the universe...

LOL Here we have an example of one with a BELIEF, draws an illustration of 'that BELIEF', and then uses that drawing to 'illustrate' that its OWN BELIEF is, laughably, true and right.

Just out of curiosity, HOW do you, supposedly, KNOW that there is an area, in which ALL things, around a circled off are, just STOP occurring or being, and in their place is just ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL?

Also, and just by the way, what is the 'thing' made up of, which SEPARATES the NOTHING from the rest of Everything?

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:09 pm Infinity can be visualized as a literally existing outer void that will forever "make room" for the ever-expanding "somethingness" of what we call "reality."

Here is ANOTHER one who thinks or BELIEVES that there is 'an area', which IS EXPANDING. And, this one ALSO has not one iota of PROOF for this CLAIM, but just BELIEVES it is true for NO other logical reason than, it just BELIEVES it is true.

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:09 pm Indeed, even if the estimated 92 billion light year diameter of the bubble-like reality of our universe (represented by the image above) was endlessly (infinitely) replicated,...

(as is suggested in the "Many Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics)

...the infinite void of absolute nothingness would never run out of room to accommodate each new universe.

The 'many worlds' or 'multiverse' INTERPRETATION is just AS ABSURD and AS STUPID as the BEGINNING and EXPANDING Universe INTERPRETATION IS.

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:09 pm So, no, it is not a serious misunderstanding to think of infinity as "existing" in a visualizable context.
_______

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:09 pm

bobmax wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:46 pm A serious misunderstanding of our age is precisely that of considering the infinite as something existing.

The infinite does indeed "exist."

It exists in the form of the unbounded (limitless/barrierless) void of absolute nothingness represented by the blackened area surrounding this fanciful depiction of the universe...



Infinity can be visualized as a literally existing outer void that will forever "make room" for the ever-expanding "somethingness" of what we call "reality."

Indeed, even if the estimated 92 billion light year diameter of the bubble-like reality of our universe (represented by the image above) was endlessly (infinitely) replicated,...

(as is suggested in the "Many Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics)

...the infinite void of absolute nothingness would never run out of room to accommodate each new universe.

So, no, it is not a serious misunderstanding to think of infinity as "existing" in a visualizable context.
_______

The void is not nothing.

In fact, the void is there as well as the matter.
While the nothing is not there.

The nothing = non-existent.

The universe is unlimited, precisely because one cannot reach the limit.
And one cannot reach the limit because it is the limit of existence itself.

It is important not to confuse the unlimited with the infinite.

The limit is there, and since it is a limit, it cannot be exceeded.
While there is no infinity.

Age wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:11 pm

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:09 pm

bobmax wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:46 pm A serious misunderstanding of our age is precisely that of considering the infinite as something existing.

The infinite does indeed "exist."

It exists in the form of the unbounded (limitless/barrierless) void of absolute nothingness represented by the blackened area surrounding this fanciful depiction of the universe...

LOL Here we have an example of one with a BELIEF, draws an illustration of 'that BELIEF', and then uses that drawing to 'illustrate' that its OWN BELIEF is, laughably, true and right.

Well, first of all, Age, I did not draw that particular illustration, no, I nicked-it from the Internet.

And secondly, please stop inserting yourself into conversations taking place between the adults.

I know that you don't like being excluded from the "big table," but you have proven, time and time again, that you're just not mature enough to understand what we're talking about.

(Dang it all, I'm never sure if I'm talking to the human who calls himself "Age/ken," or to the "channeled entity" who claims to be using him to share things; you know, the one who claims to have helped inspire the writing of the Bible.)
_______

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:10 pm The void is not nothing.

First of all, how is the infinite void...

(which is metaphorically represented by the blackened area surrounding the universe in the illustration)

...not nothing?
_______

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:48 pm

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:10 pm The void is not nothing.

First of all, how is the infinite void...

(which is metaphorically represented by the blackened area surrounding the universe in the illustration)

...not nothing?
_______

The blackened area surrounding the universe in the illustration does not exist.
It is nothingness.

Yes, it is unthinkable.
But it is unthinkable because it is impossible to go beyond the limit with the thought.

The universe is not born in the void, but by being born it creates space.
And therefore it does not expand into the void, but creates the void and matter.

There is no infinity.
Because the nothingness does not exist.

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:15 pm

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:48 pm

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:10 pm The void is not nothing.

First of all, how is the infinite void...

(which is metaphorically represented by the blackened area surrounding the universe in the illustration)

...not nothing?
_______

The blackened area surrounding the universe in the illustration does not exist.
It is nothingness.

Yes, that's what I said, it is an infinite "nothingness."

But it is a nothingness that, again, somehow manages to continuously "make room" for every speck of reality (be it mind or matter) that has ever (or potentially will ever) come into existence.

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:15 pm Yes, it is unthinkable.
But it is unthinkable because it is impossible to go beyond the limit with the thought.

Speak for yourself.

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:15 pm The universe is not born in the void, but by being born it creates space.
And therefore it does not expand into the void, but creates the void and matter.

No, it is what the astrophysicists call the "fabric" of spacetime of which matter is a part of (and suspended within) that is expanding.

And it expands into an ever-receptive infinite void of absolute nothingness - a void that is not a part of the (informationally-based) fabric that underpins and binds this bubble...



...together.

Granted, the universe appears to have created void (or empty space) between the stars and planets, however, it is not actually empty. And that's because the seemingly empty space on the inside of the bubble depicted above is, itself, woven from, again, the fabric of spacetime, and simply creates the "illusion" of being empty.

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:15 pm There is no infinity.
Because the nothingness does not exist.

Sure, it doesn't exist in any measurable sense, but, again, "something" of an infinite nature is functioning as a sort of "containment medium" in which an ever-growing, ever-expanding reality is suspended.

The bottom line is that infinity can be visualized (by me, anyway) as existing in the form of an infinite and unbounded void of absolute nothingness that will forever give-way (make room) for that which we call "reality."

(Obviously, we both could be full of crap. And yes, I know: "speak for yourself" )
_______

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:21 pm

Age wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:11 pm

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:09 pm
The infinite does indeed "exist."

It exists in the form of the unbounded (limitless/barrierless) void of absolute nothingness represented by the blackened area surrounding this fanciful depiction of the universe...

LOL Here we have an example of one with a BELIEF, draws an illustration of 'that BELIEF', and then uses that drawing to 'illustrate' that its OWN BELIEF is, laughably, true and right.

Well, first of all, Age, I did not draw that particular illustration, no, I nicked-it from the Internet.

I did NOT know that the 'one' word specifically refers to 'you', alone, "seeds".

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:21 pm And secondly, please stop inserting yourself into conversations taking place between the adults.

Please do NOT TELL me what to do or what NOT to do.

And, an ATTEMPT at condescension is NOT something a Truly grown up or mature person would even 'try'.

Furthermore, ASSUMING can lead to making MISTAKES. As, once again, SHOWN, and PROVED True here.

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:21 pm I know that you don't like being excluded from the "big table," but you have proven, time and time again, that you're just not mature enough to understand what we're talking about.

LOL
LOL
LOL

Do you want to have a discussion about YOUR CLAIM that there is AN AREA of 'things', with this MAGICAL CIRCULAR BOUNDARY, which extending beyond that area there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL, and that MAGICAL BOUNDED AREA is ALSO MAGICALLY EXPANDING BIGGER and BIGGER, from some MAGICAL MOMENT of BEGINNING?

If yes, then let us BEGIN. But, from previous ATTEMPTS at trying to get you to CLARIFY and/or PROVE YOUR CLAIM here, 'you' have ALWAYS FAILED and FALTERED "seeds", by RUNNING AWAY.

EXACTLY like you have done here AGAIN, "seeds"

SEE, making CLAIMS was a VERY COMMON practice, in the days when this was being written. These CLAIMS, as can be CLEARLY SEEN, were based off of relatively NOTHING REALLY but their OWN made up ASSUMPTIONS and/or BELIEFS. As SHOWN and PROVED True here, ONCE MORE.

And, what was ALSO A VERY COMMON PRACTICE was WHEN CHALLENGED and/or QUESTIONED, over THEIR CLAIMS or BELIEFS INSTEAD of even just 'trying to' ACT like a mature person and ACCEPT and TACKLE the CHALLENGE or QUESTION, they would TURN TO ATTEMPTS at RIDICULE, HUMILIATION, CONDESCENSION, or just PLAIN OLD AD HOMINEN ATTACKS to 'try to' DETRACT AWAY from or REFLECT AWAY from the Fact that they had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL to back up and support THEIR BELIEFS and THEIR CLAIMS.

As can be CLEARLY SEEN here, I asked "seeds" two VERY SIMPLE and VERY STRAIGHTFORWARD QUESTIONS, to GAIN CLARITY, and/or to PROVIDE "seeds" with A CHANCE to back up and support its CLAIMS, but instead of just STANDING UP to the CHALLENGING, to "seeds", TWO VERY EASY QUESTIONS, "seeds" went for a PERSONAL ATTACK INSTEAD, in the hope "seeds" could RUN AWAY and HIDE from the issue at hand here, WITHOUT being NOTICED for this VERY COWARDLY ACT.

So, I will GIVE 'you' ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY "seeds".

HOW do 'you', "seeds", supposedly, KNOW that there is an area, in which ALL things, around and beyond a circled off are, just STOP occurring or being in that area, and in their place is just ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL?

AND,

What is the 'thing' made up of, which SEPARATES the, supposed area of NOTHING from the, supposed, area of things?

What would now NORMALLY TAKE PLACE, from a Truly grown up, mature person that is, IS they would just ANSWER these questions from a Truly OPEN and Honest perspective, while NEVER even contemplating, let alone resorting to, personal ATTACKS of the character of the one that just asked the VERY SIMPLE and VERY EASILY answerable QUESTIONS.

So, SHOW 'us' "seeds" what 'you' are Truly MADE UP OF here.

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:21 pm (Dang it all, I'm never sure if I'm talking to the human who calls himself "Age/ken," or to the "channeled entity" who claims to be using him to share things; you know, the one who claims to have helped inspire the writing of the Bible.)
_______

LOL

Here we have ANOTHER PRIME EXAMPLE of one CONTINUING to ASSUME and/or BELIEVE 'things', WITHOUT EVER just STOPPING to OBTAIN and GAIN FULLY CLARIFICATION, and thus FULL CLARITY, FIRST.

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:10 pm

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:09 pm

bobmax wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:46 pm A serious misunderstanding of our age is precisely that of considering the infinite as something existing.

The infinite does indeed "exist."

It exists in the form of the unbounded (limitless/barrierless) void of absolute nothingness represented by the blackened area surrounding this fanciful depiction of the universe...



Infinity can be visualized as a literally existing outer void that will forever "make room" for the ever-expanding "somethingness" of what we call "reality."

Indeed, even if the estimated 92 billion light year diameter of the bubble-like reality of our universe (represented by the image above) was endlessly (infinitely) replicated,...

(as is suggested in the "Many Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics)

...the infinite void of absolute nothingness would never run out of room to accommodate each new universe.

So, no, it is not a serious misunderstanding to think of infinity as "existing" in a visualizable context.
_______

The void is not nothing.

What IS 'the void' made up of then, EXACTLY?

To most people the word 'void' usually means, or refers to, an area of absolutely nothing or a completely empty space.

So, what is 'the void', EXACTLY, to you, if NOT nothing?

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:10 pm In fact, the void is there as well as the matter.

OF COURSE 'the void' is THERE, as well as 'the matter'. One just has to LOOK AT the illustration to SEE this.

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:10 pm While the nothing is not there.

But even this is completely and utterly Wrong.

There HAS TO exist an 'area' of ABSOLUTELY NOTHING but 'empty' space.

For reasons WHY,
I SHALL REVEAL.
But to ONLY those,
Who are Truly READY for this KNOWLEDGE.
And, who they REALLY ARE?
Who KNOWS?

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:10 pm The nothing = non-existent.

In A SENSE, but in ANOTHER SENSE, or from ANOTHER PERSPECTIVE, WITHIN Existence there MUST BE areas of NO 'things' AS WELL AS areas of SOME 'things'.

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:10 pm The universe is unlimited, precisely because one cannot reach the limit.

Besides this, OBVIOUSLY, NOT FOLLOWING ON, LOGICALLY, what is this 'limit', which you speak of, and CLAIM one can NOT, supposedly, 'reach'?

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:10 pm And one cannot reach the limit because it is the limit of existence itself.

If you, supposedly, can NOT 'reach the limit', because it is the 'limit of existence, itself', then HOW do you, supposedly, KNOW that 'the limit' even exists?

If you have NEVER 'been there', which you CLAIM you have NOT, then HOW do you KNOW that 'it' EXISTS?

Also, what would be MORE LOGICAL is that you can NOT reach 'the unlimited', instead of proposing that one can NOT reach 'the limited'.

But each to their own, as I usually say in CLAIMS like these.

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:10 pm It is important not to confuse the unlimited with the infinite.

Well if you did NOT conflate the two here, then it would make NOT 'confusing' 'one' WITH 'the other' MUCH EASIER and MUCH SIMPLER.

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:10 pm The limit is there, and since it is a limit, it cannot be exceeded.

1. WHERE, EXACTLY, is 'there'?

2. If you, supposedly, can NOT 'reach the limit', then HOW, EXACTLY, would you KNOW that 'the limit' can NOT be 'exceeded'?

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:10 pm While there is no infinity.

What is this BELIEF and CLAIMS, of YOURS, based on, EXACTLY?

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:48 pm

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:10 pm The void is not nothing.

First of all, how is the infinite void...

(which is metaphorically represented by the blackened area surrounding the universe in the illustration)

...not nothing?
_______

What even begins to make you think or BELIEVE that the Universe is finite, bounded, or limited "seeds"?

And,

What could POSSIBLY the 'boundary', 'end', or 'limit' of the Universe BE and/or BE MADE UP of, EXACTLY?

Now, BECAUSE you can NOT answer the last question ACCURATELY, and thus PROPERLY, this is just FURTHER PROOF of what thee one and ONLY ACTUAL Truth IS, EXACTLY, here.

Which, by the way, IS ABSOLUTELY IRREFUTABLE, but which you will NEVER learn and KNOW while you continue to BELIEVE that the OPPOSITE is true. And which, by the way, you have absolutely NO PROOF FOR, AT ALL. Which makes this even MORE LAUGHABLE.

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:15 pm

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:48 pm

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:10 pm The void is not nothing.

First of all, how is the infinite void...

(which is metaphorically represented by the blackened area surrounding the universe in the illustration)

...not nothing?
_______

The blackened area surrounding the universe in the illustration does not exist.
It is nothingness.

Does NOT the word 'blackened' word here mean, or refer to, 'nothingness', itself?

Also, if there is NOT a 'blackened' area of 'nothingness' 'surrounding the universe' existing, then what IS 'the blackened area of nothingness', surrounding the WHOLE universe, if NOT existing?

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:15 pm Yes, it is unthinkable.

LOL Besides ALL of this being 'thinkable', 'it' is ALSO KNOWABLE. Of which, some of 'us' ALREADY KNOW, and KNOW IRREFUTABLY, by the way.

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:15 pm But it is unthinkable because it is impossible to go beyond the limit with the thought.

You keep referring to this 'limit' 'thing', but have YET to explain and describe 'what' this 'limit' 'thing' IS, EXACTLY?

Will you INFORM us of what this 'limit' 'thing' IS, EXACTLY, which you go on about here?

If no, then WHY NOT?

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:15 pm The universe is not born in the void, but by being born it creates space.

EVERY 'thing' BORN was born from some 'thing' ELSE. So, what was this supposedly BORN 'universe' born from, EXACTLY?

AND, do NOT FORGET that your INABILITY to answer these questions, SUFFICIENTLY, PROVES FURTHER what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, EXACTLY.

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:15 pm And therefore it does not expand into the void, but creates the void and matter.

HOW, EXACTLY, could and does A BORN 'universe' create 'the void' and 'matter'?

This would be like saying that A BORN 'human being' creates the 'space' and the 'matter' around AND within 'it'.

Which is, OBVIOUSLY, A Truly ABSURD, STUPID, ILLOGICAL, NONSENSICAL, as well as just a rather plainly RIDICULOUS and SILLY thing to think, say, and CLAIM.

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:15 pm There is no infinity.

We ALREADY KNOW what 'you' BELIEVE and CLAIM is true here "bobmax".

'you', however, and unfortunately for 'you', have just NOT YET provided ABSOLUTELY ANY thing that backs up and supports this CLEARLY STRONGLY and DEEPLY HELD ONTO BELIEF of YOURS here.

bobmax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:15 pm Because the nothingness does not exist.

So;

1. What is the 'void', which you say EXISTS, made up of, EXACTLY, IF NOT 'nothingness'?

2. Your CLAIM here, in these last two sentences, here does NOT, LOGICALLY, follow.

The 'nothingness' NOT existing in the way "seeds" BELIEVES and CLAIMS does NOT mean that 'infinity', itself, does NOT exist. It means that "seeds" is just Wrong and Incorrect, ONCE AGAIN. Which, by the way, does NOT mean that 'you', "bobmax" are, in ANY way, Right nor Correct, EITHER.