Philosophy Now Forum

We see the signs of our "Modern" science everywhere including
the technology that we use computers to create threads and ops..
that almost instantly go all over the world...

The modern question has been, Rousseau wrote about it, has
been, has morals/ethics kept up with the science/technology?
And of equal interest, why hasn't the morals/ethics kept up with
the science/technology?

We have the technology to blow up the world... but as Einstein noted,
"fear and stupidity has always been the basis of most human actions"
how do we remove the power fear and stupidity have on both our
private lives and our public life?

How do we educate ourselves into knowing what is right and wrong?
How do we become as knowing about ethics and morals,
as we are about science and technology?

(of course the real point comes in the fact that very few people, at least in
the U.S., are all that educated in science and technology, we are
using technology and science as a basis of our lives with very little
understanding of ether science or technology.. I can't see anything good
coming out of that)

and the really bothersome part is that no one seems to notice or care,
how our science and technology has outgrown our understanding of both
the science/technology and the wisdom to apply that science and technology
in a moral/ethical sense... science and technology require, no demand, that
we apply it within a moral/ethical background... and how does a 2000 year old
religion created by a nomadic, desert people like the Jews allow us to
understand science like physics, quantum mechanics, chemistry, math,
astronomy? It doesn't and therein lies part of the modern problem...
our ethical and moral basis is from religions that are centuries old,
Islam is over 1500 years old and that is the most recent major religion
that was founded...

our failure to advance ethically/morally, comes from believing in old, failed
religions have no connection to our modern technology lives....

the ethics/morals of today must come from our modern experiences
of today, which is science..... or said another way, how can faith base
religions, which is all religions, solve the question of ethics/morality
given that science/technology isn't faith based?

(now some may claim that science is just another faith base religion,
but that is ignorance of the highest order about what science is and isn't)

this question of ethics/morals in our scientific age, might be, might be
the most pressing question of the modern age....

Kropotkin

Science and technology have allowed us to enter the world, clarifying how it works and increasing the availability of tools.
But all this did not lead to new ethical questions.
If anything, old ethical issues have become more pressing due to new possibilities due to technology.

For example, dying has become difficult at times due to technology that keeps you alive despite your dying body.
The freedom to live and die therefore has one more reason to be discussed, but it is by no means a new question.

The problem posed by science / technology is of another nature.
In fact, the development of science / technology is accelerating the spread of nihilistic thought.

It is the will to power that finds its fulfillment in scientific / technological development.
But the price of all of this is that nothing is ultimately worth it

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:23 pm We see the signs of our "Modern" science everywhere …the most pressing question of the modern age

Well put.

I’d like to note that most techies will tell you that technology is morally neutral—it’s how it’s used that determines its ethical value.

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:23 pm We see the signs of our "Modern" science everywhere including
the technology that we use computers to create threads and ops..
that almost instantly go all over the world...
..........
our failure to advance ethically/morally, comes from believing in old, failed
religions have no connection to our modern technology lives....
...........
the ethics/morals of today must come from our modern experiences
of today, which is science..... or said another way, how can faith base
religions, which is all religions, solve the question of ethics/morality
given that science/technology isn't faith based?

(now some may claim that science is just another faith base religion,
but that is ignorance of the highest order about what science is and isn't)

this question of ethics/morals in our scientific age, might be, might be
the most pressing question of the modern age....

Kropotkin

I believe at present Christianity whilst promoting pseudo-morality is the most optimal in the present to deter evil as its ideology and maxim is absolutely pacifist, i.e. 'love all - even enemies' 'give the other cheek'.

I don't see Christianity as a failed religion in promoting and maintaining good, it is optimal for the present but it will not be that efficient to ensure higher level of morality as humans progresses towards a higher level of scientific progress in the future.

In addition, Christianity has no influence over Islam which is inherently evil and other evil ideologies.

As I see it, I am optimistic science will eventually uncover the inherent moral potential within all humans via the neurosciences, genetics, epigenetics, molecular biology, evolutionary biology and psychology.
From there humanity will be able to expedite the unfoldment & progress of the inherent moral potential within all humans to achieve and sustain a higher average moral competence which will then prevent and inhibit the terrible evil potential within all humans.

There is no other potentials for humanity to expeditiously facilitate progress in its moral competence other than via science with assurances it is foolproof.
Otherwise how else can humanity trigger a quantum jump in moral competence to cope up with the moral issues from the exponential advances* that science has and will unfold in other areas in the future?

* btw, I am currently taking various courses from MIT in genetics, epigenetics, molecular biology and others where I am updated with the idea that currently geneticists has the potential to create a new kind of GMO humans. GMO is common with non-humans organisms, it is only by consensus that the scientific community will NOT venture to go about it on humans, but there is nothing to stop some rogue geneticists doing it in secret to create GMO humans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He_Jiankui_affair
He Jiankui has been variously referred to as a "rogue scientist",[8] "China's Dr Frankenstein",[20] and a "mad genius"

The He Jiankui affair is a scientific and bioethical controversy concerning the use of genome editing following its first use on humans by Chinese scientist He Jiankui, who edited the genomes of human embryos in 2018.[1][2]
He became widely known on 26 November 2018[3] after he announced that he had created the first human genetically edited babies. He was listed in the Time's 100 most influential people of 2019.[4] The affair led to legal and ethical controversies, resulting in the indictment of He and two of his collaborators, Zhang Renli and Qin Jinzhou.
He eventually received widespread condemnation from all over the world.

A genetically modified organism (GMO) is an animal, plant, or microbe whose DNA has been altered using genetic engineering techniques.
https://education.nationalgeographic.or ... -organisms

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:52 am
I believe at present Christianity whilst promoting pseudo-morality is the most optimal in the present to deter evil as its ideology and maxim is absolutely pacifist, i.e. 'love all - even enemies' 'give the other cheek'.

I don't see Christianity as a failed religion in promoting and maintaining good, it is optimal for the present but it will not be that efficient to ensure higher level of morality as humans progresses towards a higher level of scientific progress in the future.

In addition, Christianity has no influence over Islam which is inherently evil and other evil ideologies.

Spoken like someone with little to no understanding of Christianity that has conflated the teachings of Jesus with Christianity. You seem to believe that Christianity has the teachings of Jesus as its foundation. It does not. The fact of the matter is that it has the teachings of Paul and followers of Paul of its foundation. The result being that, for all intents and purposes, the underlying concepts of Christianity are antithetical to the underlying concepts of the gospel preached by Jesus. As opposed to the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry, it is perhaps the most self-serving of all systems of belief created by man.

BTW you're also mistaken about Islam. Your depiction of Islam does NOT pertain to Islam per se. Rather it pertains to fundamentalist Islam which, like fundamentalist Christianity, has weaponized scripture toward its own ends. You seem to have fully bought into misinformation peddled by Christians.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:52 am As I see it, I am optimistic science will eventually uncover the inherent moral potential within all humans via the neurosciences, genetics, epigenetics, molecular biology, evolutionary biology and psychology.
From there humanity will be able to expedite the unfoldment & progress of the inherent moral potential within all humans to achieve and sustain a higher average moral competence which will then prevent and inhibit the terrible evil potential within all humans.

There is no other potentials for humanity to expeditiously facilitate progress in its moral competence other than via science with assurances it is foolproof.
Otherwise how else can humanity trigger a quantum jump in moral competence to cope up with the moral issues from the exponential advances* that science has and will unfold in other areas in the future?

Have you also bought into the Christian concept that it is impossible for man to be good of his own accord? It is part and parcel to the self-serving nature of Christianity.

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:48 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:52 am
I believe at present Christianity whilst promoting pseudo-morality is the most optimal in the present to deter evil as its ideology and maxim is absolutely pacifist, i.e. 'love all - even enemies' 'give the other cheek'.

I don't see Christianity as a failed religion in promoting and maintaining good, it is optimal for the present but it will not be that efficient to ensure higher level of morality as humans progresses towards a higher level of scientific progress in the future.

In addition, Christianity has no influence over Islam which is inherently evil and other evil ideologies.

Spoken like someone with little to no understanding of Christianity that has conflated the teachings of Jesus with Christianity. You seem to believe that Christianity has the teachings of Jesus as its foundation. It does not.
The fact of the matter is that it has the teachings of Paul and followers of Paul of its foundation. The result being that, for all intents and purposes, the underlying concepts of Christianity are antithetical to the underlying concepts of the gospel preached by Jesus. As opposed to the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry, it is perhaps the most self-serving of all systems of belief created by man.

Conflated Jesus Christ with Christianity?
You can be that ignorant not to see the linkage.

The central drive of Christianity is a matter of soteriology [desperation for salvation] which is reflected in John 3:16,

• For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Christianity is thus about believing in Christ, which is believing his words confined in the Gospels.

What Paul taught was merely the exegesis expounding the teachings of Christ in clearer terms.
If any believer were to focus merely on Paul's words without reference to the overriding Gospels of Christs, that would not be Christianity but perhaps merely "Paulianity" [a cult].

BTW you're also mistaken about Islam. Your depiction of Islam does NOT pertain to Islam per se. Rather it pertains to fundamentalist Islam which, like fundamentalist Christianity, has weaponized scripture toward its own ends. You seem to have fully bought into misinformation peddled by Christians.

Btw, I had spent nearly 3 years researching the Quran. You?
The constitution of Islam is the Quran and the Quran itself insisted cannot be anything else.
The commands of Allah in the Quran condone evil acts on non-believers.

All Muslims are humans where there are the good humans and evil prone humans.
But any human as a Muslim, s/he is duty bound to act on those evil commands, else they will not receive the divine rewards [eternal life, virgins] as promised in the Quran.
The term 'fundamentalist Islam' is misleading, a good Muslim must comply with the evil commands of of Allah.

Have you also bought into the Christian concept that it is impossible for man to be good of his own accord? It is part and parcel to the self-serving nature of Christianity.

I am not bothered with the above.

Christianity's is a pseudo-moral system and it is optimal for the present phase of human evolution but not for the future.

For the future, it is up to science [who else] to chart the inherent moral mechanisms of humans and expedite its moral progress.