Philosophy Now Forum

Over here...

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35211

...in the latter part of thread, my good friend, iambiguous, laments...

iambiguous wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:56 pmWell, given all of the things on this side of the grave that still bring me enormous pleasure and satisfaction, the thought that death utterly obliterates them -- and me! -- for all the rest of eternity, is, well, disconcerting to say the least.

I can't console the poor guy. Of course, I didn't really try cuz, as I say...

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 2:41 amI don't believe there's an afterlife for me to be barred from.

...and I'm good with that.

Mebbe in-forum atheists can offer him advice on how to put a lil starch in his trousers when it comes to Oblivion.

So: how do you, an atheist, cope with there bein' no afterlife?

This is a serious inquiry: biggy's peace of mind is on the line.

I don't worry about it at all, I won't know a thing about it once I'm dead.

If I believed in shit like Hell, I would notice that all sorts of people who seem Hell bound to my way of relgioning are quite convinced that it would be me and not they who was headed that way. I have enough imagination for that to be a bad train of thought. Luckily, you can get by quite nicely without ever thinking about this stuff, and it makes no difference, because after you are dead there is nothing at all, so they were all right about not going themselves to Hell.

I think most religious people don't realise how truly little they actually think about the afterlife. If you think about the afterlife 1% of the time, and it somehow brings you peace, that's cool, but really, when people lose faith and stop spending that 1% of the time thinking about the afterlife, their life doesn't suddenly fill with dread and terror. The 99% of their life stays largely the same, and they just... don't really think about heaven or hell that much after that.

I think it's a wild misconception that there's even something to "cope" with. Maybe for some people, but most people just live their lives, and the ups and downs are pretty similar when they're a believer and when they're not.

The same way anyone else does. If religios truly believed then they wouldn't grieve. They wouldn't fear death. In fact they probably fear death more, especially if they believe in hell.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 12:32 am Over here...

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35211

...in the latter part of thread, my good friend, iambiguous, laments...

iambiguous wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:56 pmWell, given all of the things on this side of the grave that still bring me enormous pleasure and satisfaction, the thought that death utterly obliterates them -- and me! -- for all the rest of eternity, is, well, disconcerting to say the least.

I can't console the poor guy.

I'm not looking for consolation. I'm simply noting that, given the staggering mystery embedded in the existence of existence itself, no one can rule out anything. A God, the God able to provide mere mortals here on Earth with immortality and salvation is a "leap of faith" that many are able to make. Indeed, I've known a lot of very, very intelligent men and women down through the years who were able to take that leap. And I couldn't possibly have respected them more.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 12:32 amOf course, I didn't really try cuz, as I say...

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 2:41 amI don't believe there's an afterlife for me to be barred from.

Alas, it will not sink in with souls like henry that I am far less interested in what they believe about an afterlife and far more intrigued by what they are able to demonstrate is or is not in fact true about it.

Here's someone who needs the existence of a God, the God in order to acquire a soul in the first place. Now, mind you, he is not able to provide us with any substantive evidence that this God exist. Instead, as with most things in his life revolving around value judgments, he "thinks up" his conclusions using "logical" arguments that are little more than words defining and defending still more words.

Unless of course he or others here can link me to conclusions of his that do revolve more around experiential and experimental evidence. I'm relatively new here so, sure, there may be a mountain of it laid out in other threads.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 12:32 am...and I'm good with that.

In the past, when confronting those [usually atheists] who seemed able to accept oblivion -- to actually be "good with it" -- the first thing I'd ask is, "okay, here and now, how close to your own actual existential, flesh and blood death are you?"

Are you up there in years, is your health precarious? Or is death something you react to more "philosophically"?

Also, here and now, how passionately attached to your life are you? Do you have many, many people and things that bring you enormous satisfaction and fulfilment?

After all, everyday there are those who actually take their own life. Either because they can longer endure the pain of it, or they just don't have anything or anyone it make it all worthwhile.

And how can this not be embodied existentially in dasein? Each of us is embedded in our own unique set of circumstances.

So, while I can envy those who are "good with" the obliteration of "I" for all the rest of eternity, I can certainly understand how others might be terrified of it. Anything but "good with it".

I prefer my life to be shallow, superficial and unexamined rather than be faced with such terrifying philosophical questions, thank you.

Stupid and self-absorbed vanity to be afraid of dying. It's OTHER people dying that is the scary thing, and having to be mentally tortured for sometimes the rest of your life.

[quote="henry quirk" post_id=585316 time=1658619160 user_id=472]
Over here...

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35211

...in the latter part of thread, my good friend, iambiguous, laments...[quote=iambiguous post_id=585047 time=1658516186 user_id=4948]Well, given all of the things on this side of the grave that still bring me enormous pleasure and satisfaction, the thought that death utterly obliterates them -- and me! -- for all the rest of eternity, is, well, disconcerting to say the least.[/quote]

I can't console the poor guy. Of course, I didn't really try cuz, as I say...[quote="henry quirk" post_id=584886 time=1658454095 user_id=472]I don't believe there's an afterlife for me to be barred from. [/quote]...and I'm good with that.

Mebbe in-forum atheists can offer him advice on how to put a lil starch in his trousers when it comes to [i]Oblivion[/i].

So: [b][size=150]how do you, an atheist, cope with there bein' no afterlife?[/size][/b]

This is a serious inquiry: biggy's peace of mind is on the line.
[/quote]

I'm looking forward to it. I was born ready.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 12:32 am So: how do you, an atheist, cope with there bein' no afterlife?

How do you, a theist, cope with the idea of an eternal afterlife?

The joke's going to be on you when you arrive in Heaven only to figure out that somebody has to work for eternity to keep the place running and stop it from turning into Hell.

And that someone is you! Free, eternal labour. God's not an idiot, he ain't gonna do it himself!

Nobody dies, because... nobody lives.

bobmax wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 7:19 am Nobody dies, because... nobody lives.

Poor atheists. Even a gnat lives.

(as I used to tell the kids, it probably has a little home, it's own little bedroom ... and so on.)

No afterlife is chlld's play compared to the Ship of Thebes/Persistent Self issue.

Flash, Flannel, veg, pro, Advocate, Bob, Iwanna,

On biggy's behalf: thanks.

-----

Skep,

You asked...

How do you, a theist, cope with the idea of an eternal afterlife?

As I said...

I don't believe there's an afterlife for me to be barred from.

And: I'm not a theist.

-----

Walker,

If I had a finger wag emoji, I'd use it now. This thread is for consoling, not poo-pooing.

Shame on you.

-----

Any other atheists, agnostics or otherwise irreligious/areligious folks out there have advice for my good friend, biggy?

He's in his dark night of the soul and needs a nightlight.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 2:12 pm Any other atheists, agnostics or otherwise irreligious/areligious folks out there have advice for my good friend, biggy?

He's in his dark night of the soul and needs a nightlight.

I'm not in those categories, but was father was. He had passions. He was always learning. He loved to walk and explore. He lived in a big city and despite being an expat knew that city better than most natives. He (and my mother) were very social. Most of his time online was communication with friends or learning things. He admitted to being afraid of death and also to being afraid of losing my mother, which he did, she died first. But he didn't dwell too much on death. He played piano, always frustrated with his limitations, always trying to improve.

So...
1) if possible physically active
2) be social, however you can
3) find interests that are not focused on what you fear and follow these with passion
4) be creative if some creative activity interests you - and probably best if it not a creative activity that entails dwelling on death

and if any of these things are a problem - you are disabled, you are not creative (though it seems to me iamb could be a creative writer of many kinds) - find ways to contact people - and not focused primarily on death and other things that make you feel bad - and dive into life.

I am not sure what my father would have said, but that is certainly how he lived. Oh, yeah, eat food that you love.

That there is valuable advice, Iwanna. I hope biggy is payin' attention.