Philosophy Now Forum

While at the cinema gazing at the big wide empty blank screen full of moving images of sound and light. You are watching LOVE STORY starring Ryan O'Neal..and Ali MacGraw...Think about it, You know the images are not real people, you know the sound that is heard as words are just emanating from out of those empty images.

And yet it seems, that any image can evoke subjective content such as emotions, thoughts, memories, projections, dreams, and illusions. And that's just what they are. What else could they be.

What else could they be.

They could be unapologetic.

Walker.


I’ll never like you, and just to let you know,I actually feel physically ill knowing you walk the same earth as me.

Now go away….very far away…if you do one good thing in your life today, it would be that.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:57 am While at the cinema gazing at the big wide empty blank screen full of moving images of sound and light. You are watching LOVE STORY starring Ryan O'Neal..and Ali MacGraw...Think about it, You know the images are not real people, you know the sound that is heard as words are just emanating from out of those empty images.

And yet it seems, that any image can evoke subjective content such as emotions, thoughts, memories, projections, dreams, and illusions. And that's just what they are. What else could they be.

I have been in this “state”. I say state because prior to it, it seemed to not be that way, then, one day it was like some inner observer was watching this life, including all feelings thoughts actions, were unfolding in front of it, separate from it like someone watching a movie. The strange thing was, upon this realisation, it was also realised that it had always been this way, yet had somehow been overlooked, and now that it was not overlooked it seemed completely obvious that there was not me having all these mind states, but simply a witness to all of that. And slowly, gradually it changed again. This separation slowly closed, and, the observer began to see that itself was not any thing, and therefore could not locate itself as separate from what it was observing. It was like the idea of this observer was hiding in its own imaginary blind spot.

Now, this observer doesn’t feel like an observer, because it doesn’t feel separate from any thing, yet it also knows it is not those things, those mind states, bodily feelings etc, because they are observed. Also, this observer, or idea of itself, is utterly confused, dumbfounded and bamboozled. What changes might come next which might flip everything again on its head?

This observer feels like, it could just disappear, and feels like it just wants to evaporate into existence itself, yet it also knows that if that were to happen, it would also be completely normal, and would just be another unveiling of an already present truth. Like a game of pass the parcel, uncovering layer upon layer of deeper truth, what lies in the middle? Some prize? Or maybe it’s empty? And would that be the greatest prize?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Jul 23, 2022 1:04 pm Walker.


I’ll never like you, and just to let you know,I actually feel physically ill knowing you walk the same earth as me.

Now go away….very far away…if you do one good thing in your life today, it would be that.

You have a problem in your noggin, and it ain't me.

Consider this forum a public sidewalk, and you are not a judge. You can stop reading now, as the rest of the posting is an analysis for the rest of us, who know how to discuss things like civilized people, rather than like hostile animals defending their turf, which is what you do.

*

If we are to believe the bad acting in the link, a refusal to apologize, for instance to apologize for raving like a demented baboon, is proof of love. Seems kind of fishy logic to me, if you know what I mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTB3XamPvWs

Actually, an inability to appropriately, (which on a dualistic philosophy forum means intellectually) … the inability to appropriately respond to a topic in light of three-part context: type of forum (philosophy), the subforum (general, aesthetics, religion, etc.), and the specific topic (designated by the thread title) … this inability, when experienced and clung to, is a form of samsara known as frustration.

As you can see, the above link, which pertains to the OP, is consistent with all three criteria, thus is appropriate.
And of course, by this objective standard, raving like a demented baboon is inappropriate, and demeans any inarticulate human howler who finds they must melt down in that way.

The question is, after taking the appropriate medicinal remedy for nausea, a nausea caused by the the frustrated inability to employ rationality, logic, kindness and truth … will you (since you can't stop yourself from reading this) find the personal integrity to honor the forum by turning yourself in to the authorities for breaking the rules of the forum, and accept your punishment that is a reminder to not again transgress against what is right?

Here's the real question.

If one can't keep up intellectually on a philosophy forum, what is one to do about the frustration?

How can one still participate and live in peace without resorting to behavior that is inappropriate because it dishonors what it means to be a human being? To be a human being is to employ those capacities which separate us from the lower realms.

As it so happens, I know the answer, and it doesn't rely on intellectual capacity.

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 6:21 am
You have a problem in your noggin, and it ain't me.

Yes, I do have a problem in my head, and yes it aint you, it's all about me, and how I literally cannot stand you, and nothing is ever going to hold me back from letting you know how I feel about you... I'm always truly honest about these kinds of situations. And I'm certainly not someone who is ever going to bow down to your egomanic patronising demands.

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 6:21 amConsider this forum a public sidewalk, and you are not a judge.

Well no, I'm not going to imagine anything of the sort, because that's just another example of your demand for oneupmanship status.

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 6:21 am You can stop reading now, as the rest of the posting is an analysis for the rest of us,

But only you have a problem reading my posts, not the rest of us, the rest of us are adult and mature enough to ignore confrontations, whereas you seem to have an incessant need to thrive on them.

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 6:21 am who know how to discuss things like civilized people, rather than like hostile animals defending their turf, which is what you do.

Some discuss like civilised people that's true, but your not one of them. I respond in kind to subjects and their world views, and is why I will never be kind to you personally, because I happen to have developed a total dislike for your responses, half of which never make any sense anyway, it's like all I hear is blah blah blah.

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 6:21 amIf we are to believe the bad acting in the link, a refusal to apologize, for instance to apologize for raving like a demented baboon, is proof of love. Seems kind of fishy logic to me, if you know what I mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTB3XamPvWs

I'm not interested in your hysterical reactionary links to my posts...so I didn't watch it, so you can stick it up your arse. When you stop annoying me, then perhaps I'll stop raving at you like most normal apes do when they are being constantly baited by other baboons into making a reaction. How about you saying sorry to me for all the abuse you keep flinging at me.

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 6:21 amActually, an inability to appropriately, (which on a dualistic philosophy forum means intellectually) … the inability to appropriately respond to a topic in light of three-part context: type of forum (philosophy), the subforum (general, aesthetics, religion, etc.), and the specific topic (designated by the thread title) … this inability, when experienced and clung to, is a form of samsara known as frustration.

I have no idea what you are going on about now, your intellectual head is way too complicated for my liking.

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 6:21 amAs you can see, the above link, which pertains to the OP, is consistent with all three criteria, thus is appropriate.
And of course, by this objective standard, raving like a demented baboon is inappropriate, and demeans any inarticulate human howler who finds they must melt down in that way.

Still no idea what you are waffling on about.

Melt down! ?.... try looking in the mirror, jerk.

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 6:21 amThe question is, after taking the appropriate medicinal remedy for nausea, a nausea caused by the the frustrated inability to employ rationality, logic, kindness and truth … will you (since you can't stop yourself from reading this) find the personal integrity to honor the forum by turning yourself in to the authorities for breaking the rules of the forum, and accept your punishment that is a reminder to not again transgress against what is right?

The only remedy I need is for you to stop talking to me, and stop baiting me to react. Just so you know you are the only person on this entire forum that baits me into a reaction. I sussed you out ages ago that you are the instigator of all our troubles. I've always gotten a really bad negative vibe from you.

Go away...or keep on exposing me for the bad guy, and I'll keep showing you that bad image of me, because I wouldn't dream of making you look like a liar.

Carry on gatecrashing my headspace with your condecending preachy lectures, if it makes you feel better, even though you have told me I do not bother you, when it's obviously clear that I do....so keep calm and carry on, keep on provoking more reactions, addiction is hard to break. I know.

When to you truth is bait, then you should contemplate.

Upon what?

Well, you contemplate upon why you get so hot and bothered over words that you say mean nothing, words of truth that you can't bear to hear, and that causes the brow to sweat, the frustration to mount, until it spills over from the inner to outer and you start telling other folks what to do, like some kind of goose-stepping tyrant.

Another form of this is sticking your fingers in your ears and singing, "lalalala," which I suspect is a derivative of a children's Christmas Carol verse that I've heard both as an innocent child, and as an adult who has put away childish things, because when childish things such as inarticulate curses are utilized in philosophy, they help to teach the nature of epistemology in action, i.e., how is it we know what we know.

Now, think about it long and hard enough to get over the ego, so you can finally write something of value for a change, for the need to hear of something of value is a recent need confessed by uwot, in order to agree with another's thought, and I figure if two share the need then there are more.

Take your time.

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 8:23 am When to you truth is bait, then you should contemplate.

Look, when are you going to get it into your thick skull....

There is your truth and there is my truth...And it seems you take umbrage with my truth, and I certainly take umbrage with your truth....we simply have nothing in common, please just let that sink in for once in your life. Nothing you will ever say to me will make any sense, please stop wasting your breath....you have heard of the ignore option haven't you...I have no interest in you ..got it?


That's all there is to say ...THAT'S ALL FOLKS!

Now GOODBYE! ..hopefully for the last time.

Dimebag wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 12:21 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:57 am While at the cinema gazing at the big wide empty blank screen full of moving images of sound and light. You are watching LOVE STORY starring Ryan O'Neal..and Ali MacGraw...Think about it, You know the images are not real people, you know the sound that is heard as words are just emanating from out of those empty images.

And yet it seems, that any image can evoke subjective content such as emotions, thoughts, memories, projections, dreams, and illusions. And that's just what they are. What else could they be.

I have been in this “state”. I say state because prior to it, it seemed to not be that way, then, one day it was like some inner observer was watching this life, including all feelings thoughts actions, were unfolding in front of it, separate from it like someone watching a movie. The strange thing was, upon this realisation, it was also realised that it had always been this way, yet had somehow been overlooked, and now that it was not overlooked it seemed completely obvious that there was not me having all these mind states, but simply a witness to all of that. And slowly, gradually it changed again. This separation slowly closed, and, the observer began to see that itself was not any thing, and therefore could not locate itself as separate from what it was observing. It was like the idea of this observer was hiding in its own imaginary blind spot.

Now, this observer doesn’t feel like an observer, because it doesn’t feel separate from any thing, yet it also knows it is not those things, those mind states, bodily feelings etc, because they are observed. Also, this observer, or idea of itself, is utterly confused, dumbfounded and bamboozled. What changes might come next which might flip everything again on its head?

This observer feels like, it could just disappear, and feels like it just wants to evaporate into existence itself, yet it also knows that if that were to happen, it would also be completely normal, and would just be another unveiling of an already present truth. Like a game of pass the parcel, uncovering layer upon layer of deeper truth, what lies in the middle? Some prize? Or maybe it’s empty? And would that be the greatest prize?

Very well said Dimebag. I totes agree with your response. It's as though we are the entire universe looking at our self as and through the external surround that exists as our mirror image.

This reflective phenomena is known as the effect of what it is like to be a conscious being...A being aware it is aware...that's what consciousness is...because if there was nothing to look at, then there would never have been the awareness that one is always first and foremost the observer, and never the 'looked upon'....the 'looked upon' is never our 'direct experience'...our 'direct experience' is the observer that can never be observed..isn't that amazing! ?

Would you agree?

The greatest prize for me personally, is knowing everything is nothing, and that everything is essentially empty to the core.

And I do also believe that is how the self is able to endure itself, in that simple knowledge.

All the horrors, trials, and tribulations are endured, simply because endurance is all that can be endured, there is no way out but back in. It's all us, and not us at the same time.

Like I've said before, it's awful, and yet at the same time it's awfully wonderful.

I personally would not choose to be born, but then I'm also relieved to know, nothing ever chooses anything anyway, and that is for me the peace that passes all understanding. That understanding is when you give up all hope of control and just surrender to what is.

Thanks for your feedback Dimebag.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 8:35 am

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 8:23 am When to you truth is bait, then you should contemplate.

Look, when are you going to get it into your thick skull....

There is your truth and there is my truth

When your truth involves projecting upon me the implications of a thick skull, your truth is not truth. In that case, what you call truth, is a lie.

Lying is not the spiritual path. Lying is the path of evil. It's a bad habit.

*

Hopefully, you’ll see the humour in this video as it relates to your prejudicial proclivities, and hopefully neither it nor this little message won’t cause you to again go careening over the edge at high speed, spewing out all kinds of mean and nasty expulsions of frustration, in a childish fit of incomprehension and impotence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yop62wQH498

Take your time. See in the video the humour, the irony, the goodwill, the transcendence of the naivete that you project upon others, and let it guide your heart this time, when making the response that you must make, keeping in mind that silence is also a song.

(phrased as advice because advice burns your “chips,” and your ego is asking for it)

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:57 am While at the cinema gazing at the big wide empty blank screen full of moving images of sound and light. You are watching LOVE STORY starring Ryan O'Neal..and Ali MacGraw...Think about it, You know the images are not real people, you know the sound that is heard as words are just emanating from out of those empty images.

And yet it seems, that any image can evoke subjective content such as emotions, thoughts, memories, projections, dreams, and illusions. And that's just what they are. What else could they be.

The metaphor of Consciousness as an Aware Screen within which all experiences arise, and into which they dissolve. There is nothing to the image but the screen.

Thus, knowing and being are inseparable. You are nothing and everything knowing and being simultaneously.

Nothing lives. Nothing dies.
Everything lives. Everything dies.
Same difference where there is none.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:57 am While at the cinema gazing at the big wide empty blank screen full of moving images of sound and light. You are watching LOVE STORY starring Ryan O'Neal..and Ali MacGraw...Think about it, You know the images are not real people, you know the sound that is heard as words are just emanating from out of those empty images.

And yet it seems, that any image can evoke subjective content such as emotions, thoughts, memories, projections, dreams, and illusions. And that's just what they are. What else could they be.

Dontaskeme,

Everyone has a persona, meaning a projection of qualities and mannerisms that allow people to make assessments about your character and likely behaviors. Movie stars are actors, professional manipulators of personas who through acting present the characteristics and mannerisms appropriate to the character they are portraying. You in a sense are a voyeur, as movies like novels allow you to know the motivations of the characters acting out the roles appropriate to the drama, so you know who is the good guy and who is the bad guy. In real life, we do not have the luxury of knowing peoples motivations or intentions. In real life, the people around you have an impression of you which to them is your character or your presented persona which is not generally an accurate assessment.

The strange thing is this, people will get an impression of you which amounts to a persona, which is like being categorized and under this impression they believe they know you. The longer you know these people the more concretized the impression becomes for them and they are comfortable with that impression. All of these personas these impressions are necessarily simpler than the real complexity of the individual involved, so if you do or say something that doesn't fit that impression/persona it can be upsetting for them. If you get creative and that is not their impression of you, then you will feel their disrespect and often family and relatives as well as old friends are most guilty of this. You will find in some respects that you are better treated by stranger than the aforementioned simply because your are not boxed in to a long held impression/persona. If your long-term friends and or family are to upset it might mean a major change in your relationship with them, even the loss of relationships is possible. The other strange thing about this is the impression they have of you is not accurate but the impression you have of your own projected persona is not what people perceive, perhaps if they could meet somewhere in the middle one would come closer to one's true character. Impressions of one's character are formed partly by the subject and partly by those observing the subject and never the twain shall truly meet.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 10:50 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:57 am While at the cinema gazing at the big wide empty blank screen full of moving images of sound and light. You are watching LOVE STORY starring Ryan O'Neal..and Ali MacGraw...Think about it, You know the images are not real people, you know the sound that is heard as words are just emanating from out of those empty images.

And yet it seems, that any image can evoke subjective content such as emotions, thoughts, memories, projections, dreams, and illusions. And that's just what they are. What else could they be.

Dontaskeme,

Everyone has a persona, meaning a projection of qualities and mannerisms that allow people to make assessments about your character and likely behaviors. Movie stars are actors, professional manipulators of personas who through acting present the characteristics and mannerisms appropriate to the character they are portraying. You in a sense are a voyeur, as movies like novels allow you to know the motivations of the characters acting out the roles appropriate to the drama, so you know who is the good guy and who is the bad guy. In real life, we do not have the luxury of knowing peoples motivations or intentions. In real life, the people around you have an impression of you which to them is your character or your presented persona which is not generally an accurate assessment.

The strange thing is this, people will get an impression of you which amounts to a persona, which is like being categorized and under this impression they believe they know you. The longer you know these people the more concretized the impression becomes for them and they are comfortable with that impression. All of these personas these impressions are necessarily simpler than the real complexity of the individual involved, so if you do or say something that doesn't fit that impression/persona it can be upsetting for them. If you get creative and that is not their impression of you, then you will feel their disrespect and often family and relatives as well as old friends are most guilty of this. You will find in some respects that you are better treated by stranger than the aforementioned simply because your are not boxed in to a long held impression/persona. If your long-term friends and or family are to upset it might mean a major change in your relationship with them, even the loss of relationships is possible. The other strange thing about this is the impression they have of you is not accurate but the impression you have of your own projected persona is not what people perceive, perhaps if they could meet somewhere in the middle one would come closer to one's true character. Impressions of one's character are formed partly by the subject and partly by those observing the subject and never the twain shall truly meet.

Thanks for your input Pop

Impressions, are projections, they are illusions. Bad and Good energies that arise and fall have nowhere to go, but live in the here and now as interpretations of a mental image of YOU. And a still mind is like a still wind. But ultimately, all our experiences be they spiritual or otherwise, are the basic cause of all our suffering.

The body is not interested in anything that YOU are interested in. That is the battle that is going on all the time.
There seems to be no way out of this dilemma except to recognise it as the illusion it is.

Ultimately, Nothing matters, and will all too soon pass away. All that really matters is what's passed away is no longer irrelevant, leaving just this pure open space of unconditional love.


Anything you experience based on thought is an illusion.

You can't experience anything except through thought. You can't experience your own body except through the help of thought. The sensory perceptions are there. Your thoughts give form and definition to the body, otherwise you have no way of experiencing it. The body does not exist except as a thought. There is one thought. Everything exists in relationship to that one thought. That thought is "me". Anything you experience based on thought is an illusion.
The 'me' is a Myth. There's just everything.

Walker, I'm very sorry, truly sorry. Love is never having to say you are sorry. I've been reacting to illusions. And I already know this, and it means nothing, because all that matters is forgiveness, and to let it be, and to live in the quiet open space of pure peace. ( otherwise known as Love)

To everyone reading this thread. May you have a blessed day ahead, may good fortune be your friend, and may all your dreams come true. Love is eternal, and will always win.

Only hurt people hurt.

But love soothes all hurt, lets celebrate love, it's unconditional balm, will calm, only this love. Only love is real. Only love is true.

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:39 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 8:35 am

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 8:23 am When to you truth is bait, then you should contemplate.

Look, when are you going to get it into your thick skull....

There is your truth and there is my truth

When your truth involves projecting upon me the implications of a thick skull, your truth is not truth. In that case, what you call truth, is a lie.

Lying is not the spiritual path. Lying is the path of evil. It's a bad habit.

*

Hopefully, you’ll see the humour in this video as it relates to your prejudicial proclivities, and hopefully neither it nor this little message won’t cause you to again go careening over the edge at high speed, spewing out all kinds of mean and nasty expulsions of frustration, in a childish fit of incomprehension and impotence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yop62wQH498

Take your time. See in the video the humour, the irony, the goodwill, the transcendence of the naivete that you project upon others, and let it guide your heart this time, when making the response that you must make, keeping in mind that silence is also a song.

(phrased as advice because advice burns your “chips,” and your ego is asking for it)

Thank you Walker, for helping me to see the true colours of myself.