Philosophy Now Forum

and what is a Zombie? it is defined as a
"body without a soul" and I am sure many diverse
other definitions exists for Zombies...
but for our sake, we will hold on to "bodies without a soul"
and it is assumed that Zombies are not real, or myths.
Many modern movies and books have been written about Zombies,
and their attack on our modern civilization...

So, the question must asked, are Zombies real?
and I am gonna say yes, Zombies are real and
the vast majority of people are Zombies in our modern world...

Let us review, what is a Zombie? A person without a soul...

Let us look at, say commercials.. what is being presented?
Is there any commercials that suggest anything other then
products to be bought or sold? We are defined, as human beings,
by our consumerism, by our production of goods, by our working..
so we are defined as consumers, producers and workers...

Is there any effort in the modern world to see ourselves as
being or having value as "good" or "decent" people?
Is there any effort to think about ourselves in terms of
right or wrong? Is there any attempt to look at human beings
in terms of who they are, and not what they can buy, produce
or work?

When asked, who are you? And you answer, I am a checker or a CEO, a lawyer,
or a bookkeeper or a bricklayer... your answer about who you are, is
defined by your job or your profession... people don't answer the question of
"who they are" with anything other than an answer about what they do as
a job or career.. When was the last time you were asked, if you were
a good person? and why not? Because it our modern world, it isn't
important if you are a good person, it only matters if you make money,
or you produce something, or you have a fancy car... at work, does it matter
if you are a good person or a bad person? nope, actually no one cares, all that
matters is that you make a profit or make the company money... every other
consideration is irrelevant... do you create a profit? that is the only thing that
matters in the modern world.. and that doesn't require a soul, it doesn't require
one to be good or evil or kind or loving... the goal is to make money, any and every other
value is irrelevant... In the modern world, we are simply Zombies, beings without a soul,
because having a soul is irrelevant to making money... it doesn't matter in being a
worker or a producer or a consumer if you are a good person or a bad person, it just
doesn't matter, it is irrelevant.. and thus we are nothing more than Zombies..
because the only value in the modern world is making money and having values
or a soul is not relevant or important to that goal...

so dumping toxic waste is not a question of value, is it right or wrong, is
irrelevant.. does it make a profit? then it by definition, is the right thing to do....
as making profits/money is the only value that matters, believing in right or wrong
is irrelevant.. engaging in values like peace, love, hope, charity is irrelevant
because those values don't make a profit.. and we are simply beings who only
value is to make money/profits.. thus we only have value if we exist as Zombies..
with no concern with right or wrong..

for having a soul, means we are concerned with values and not profits/money...
values like peace and hope and honor... these values only matter if we have
a soul to judge these values... but in that judgement, we lose out on the
modern need for us to be Zombies... to be right or wrong is not important
in our modern world.... only making profits/money matters.... and having a soul,
being human, interferes with that sole objective of the modern world
making money/profits...

Kropotkin.

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:26 pm
Is there any effort in the modern world to see ourselves as
being or having value as "good" or "decent" people?

Sure, though there are different ideas about what a good person is and what a decent perosn is, but I see discussion of values and morals all over the internet, at my work, when I'm at a cafe and in other media. in fact a lot of conflicts are over values, differing values, with people praising some to the sky and damning others.
And sure, as you later complain, making a profit guides a lot of the behavior of those in power. But i would say there is a constant buzz of value talk all the time, perhaps more than any other time in my lifetime. Not that all of this means I am happy with these dicussions. I just seem to be living in a different modern world than you.

I have little against the zombie idea. I think that applies. Zombies seem capable of babbling about anything.

Is there any effort to think about ourselves in terms of
right or wrong?

jesus, yeah. Again I see this all over the place. Blame, and blame and blame based on right and wrong. Praise, praise and praise based on right and wrong. And a lot of implied I am good, they are bad talk all over the plae.

Is there any attempt to look at human beings
in terms of who they are, and not what they can buy, produce
or work?

Perhaps not by the corporate powers that be, but otherwise, sure.

OK, let us approach this from another angle...

I am not a fan of Zombie movies, seen a few... what do Zombies do?
Do they spend the movie in deep reflection of what it means to be
a Zombie? or do they question the morality/ethics of being a Zombie?
Do they ask themselves, is this all I am really meant to do? Be a Zombie
and eat the flesh or the brains of others? Is that really the point of
existence? What other possibilities do I have? Can I be a philosopher
or a thinker or an ARTIST? Or is my only possibility/choice in this
existence is to be a Zombie?

Do Zombies question the point of existence?

NO, quite clearly they don't reflect on what it means to be a Zombie...

let us see what the average person does today?
(mind you, I am in my 60's, married almost 30 years, raised a daughter,
for me, these were daily conversations for decades)

wake up.. think, what time do I work? wonder what's for breakfast?
Dam, inventory is next week, what is left for me to do? conversation
with wife might go like this, am I picking up Ashley today, are you?
Need me to pick up something from the store for dinner?
Go through the day.. facing daily questions of who is working
in this section, what paperwork needs to be done today?
Get home, how was your day dear? My day was just another day.
My daughter might ask to use the car for going out to a movie?
We eat dinner, watch a bit of TV, then off to bed...and
will tomorrow look any different? Doubt it...

I am leading a Zombie existence.. without a soul...
I am not engaging in any questions or wondering what is the point
of 40 plus years working? I don't engage in any questions about why
am I killing myself at work for decades and for what?
I am not asking any questions about my possibilities or what my choices are?
I am not asking, what the point of all this?

I am in fact, leading a Zombie existence.. without any thought or curiosity
as to the questions of existence.. ''What am I to do?" ''What should I believe in?"
''What can I know?" "What is the point of existence?"

And the vast majority of people in the world are leading the existence of
being a Zombie by not engaging asking questions about what it means to be human?
And what are our possibilities? that is the Zombie existence... and most
of/ practically all of our modern selves...just working and not asking
as to why am I working? Just being Zombies....

Kropotkin

OK, that I can go along with more. I see and hear moral dialogue and shouting and fingerpoint all over the place, but not much exploration of onself, the world, sure.

Even less do I see people willing to explore things not approved by their churches by science by fashion. Most just accept handmedown ideas about what is going on from whatever authority their subcultural group approves.

and in philosophy forums, should they encouter someone who explores and even has found things not approved by the subcultures, they will demand whatever that person believe be proved...cough cough, get this

online via words on a screen.

as if learning was a process best spent on your ass verbalizing. Talk about a guaranteed method to never change you mind, never find something really new and to keep in the good graces of what science or religion pundit they give their lives over to

maybe it's a lecture series

The shootings are so frequent now and often recorded. The last one was from a rooftop, shooting down at a parade of unsuspecting and unprotected innocents.

What do these shooters have in common? Prescription drugs. Anti-depressants.

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:26 pm and what is a Zombie? it is defined as a
"body without a soul" and I am sure many diverse
other definitions exists for Zombies...

If that is a definition then we are all zombies.

but for our sake, we will hold on to "bodies without a soul"
and it is assumed that Zombies are not real, or myths.
Many modern movies and books have been written about Zombies,
and their attack on our modern civilization...

So, the question must asked, are Zombies real?
and I am gonna say yes, Zombies are real and
the vast majority of people are Zombies in our modern world...

Let us review, what is a Zombie? A person without a soul...

Let us look at, say commercials.. what is being presented?
Is there any commercials that suggest anything other then
products to be bought or sold? We are defined, as human beings,
by our consumerism, by our production of goods, by our working..
so we are defined as consumers, producers and workers...

Is there any effort in the modern world to see ourselves as
being or having value as "good" or "decent" people?
Is there any effort to think about ourselves in terms of
right or wrong? Is there any attempt to look at human beings
in terms of who they are, and not what they can buy, produce
or work?

When asked, who are you? And you answer, I am a checker or a CEO, a lawyer,
or a bookkeeper or a bricklayer... your answer about who you are, is
defined by your job or your profession... people don't answer the question of
"who they are" with anything other than an answer about what they do as
a job or career.. When was the last time you were asked, if you were
a good person? and why not? Because it our modern world, it isn't
important if you are a good person, it only matters if you make money,
or you produce something, or you have a fancy car... at work, does it matter
if you are a good person or a bad person? nope, actually no one cares, all that
matters is that you make a profit or make the company money... every other
consideration is irrelevant... do you create a profit? that is the only thing that
matters in the modern world.. and that doesn't require a soul, it doesn't require
one to be good or evil or kind or loving... the goal is to make money, any and every other
value is irrelevant... In the modern world, we are simply Zombies, beings without a soul,
because having a soul is irrelevant to making money... it doesn't matter in being a
worker or a producer or a consumer if you are a good person or a bad person, it just
doesn't matter, it is irrelevant.. and thus we are nothing more than Zombies..
because the only value in the modern world is making money and having values
or a soul is not relevant or important to that goal...

so dumping toxic waste is not a question of value, is it right or wrong, is
irrelevant.. does it make a profit? then it by definition, is the right thing to do....
as making profits/money is the only value that matters, believing in right or wrong
is irrelevant.. engaging in values like peace, love, hope, charity is irrelevant
because those values don't make a profit.. and we are simply beings who only
value is to make money/profits.. thus we only have value if we exist as Zombies..
with no concern with right or wrong..

for having a soul, means we are concerned with values and not profits/money...
values like peace and hope and honor... these values only matter if we have
a soul to judge these values... but in that judgement, we lose out on the
modern need for us to be Zombies... to be right or wrong is not important
in our modern world.... only making profits/money matters.... and having a soul,
being human, interferes with that sole objective of the modern world
making money/profits...

Kropotkin.

Your method of starting with a badly defined myth and reverse engineering it to talk about real people is faulty and unconvincing.
Zombie are not "people with no soul". Zombies are reanimated corpses, bent on the destruction of animated living things that are not zombies.
It is of interest why there are so many films books and mega-series of TV productions concerning zombies. Such interest must in some way reflect the real fears of people about over population and masses of unthinking hoards that seem hell bent on destroying the world without a single thought for what they are doing.
On this level there is certainly something to say.