Philosophy Now Forum

This quote ends a Britannica article about the atman. Is it an accurate statement?

“The Muslim concept, like the Christian, holds that the soul comes into existence at the same time as the body; thereafter, it has a life of its own, its union with the body being a temporary condition.”

https://www.britannica.com/topic/atman

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:20 am This quote ends a Britannica article about the atman. Is it an accurate statement?

“The Muslim concept, like the Christian, holds that the soul comes into existence at the same time as the body; thereafter, it has a life of its own, its union with the body being a temporary condition.”

https://www.britannica.com/topic/atman

The quote implies a something leaving somewhere to be other than that somewhere, as in not the same place.

Which makes no sense, because all that can be known to exist is this immediate herenow. There is no other place that can be known, as implied in the above quote.

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:20 am This quote ends a Britannica article about the atman. Is it an accurate statement?

“The Muslim concept, like the Christian, holds that the soul comes into existence at the same time as the body; thereafter, it has a life of its own, its union with the body being a temporary condition.”

https://www.britannica.com/topic/atman

When the word 'soul' refers to the invisible part of the human being, that is; the thoughts and feelings WITHIN human bodies, then they obviously only come to exist when the human body has come to exist, or come into existence. And, when the body stops breathing and pumping blood, then NO more feelings NOR thoughts will EVER exist within that body. This is just because the brain has stopped functioning. BUT, while that visible human body is decaying, in this Life, the invisible thoughts, (and far less so, the invisible feelings), that WERE within that body are having an ever lasting effect, STILL in this Life, by the way they INFLUENCED the 'other people' who were around when that body and brain were 'alive', or functioning, and which through these ones will continuing influencing "others" forever more, AGAIN, but STILL in this Life, ONLY.

The 'union' with the body is ONLY in the Fact that 'new thoughts (and feelings)' ONLY CAN and ONLY DO ARISE when the body is alive/breathing and pumping blood, which is OBVIOUSLY only a 'temporary condition'. The thoughts, and feelings, WITHIN EVERY body can, OBVIOUSLY, ONLY begin, and exist, when the body begins, and exists, but these individual and invisible thoughts and feelings/the soul live on eternally through what they have influenced and/or created in this One and ONLY Life.

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:20 am This quote ends a Britannica article about the atman. Is it an accurate statement?

“The Muslim concept, like the Christian, holds that the soul comes into existence at the same time as the body; thereafter, it has a life of its own, its union with the body being a temporary condition.”

https://www.britannica.com/topic/atman

Yes, it is an accurate statement.

The human body represents the physiological means by-which the highest SOUL of this universe (commonly referred to as "God") replicates itself.

Indeed, at the moment of what we call "death," the human soul is birthed (born/delivered) - literally out of the universe - and into "true reality" where its true form (the same form as God) is finally revealed to it.

At that point, the human body becomes nothing more than the metaphorical equivalent of a higher form of "placental afterbirth" that is left behind within the universe...



It is left behind because it literally cannot leave the universe, for it is an inseparable part of the "entangled" physics of God's mental holography from which the body is formed.

Unlike the soul,...

(which is the "realist" thing, so to speak, in all of existence)

...the human body literally has no form or reality on the outside of God's mind (on the outside of this universe).

As I keep saying, I might be wrong, but I just don't know how the truth of reality, and that of our ultimate and eternal destiny, can get any more "NATURAL" and "ORGANIC" than that.


_______

seeds wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:56 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:20 am This quote ends a Britannica article about the atman. Is it an accurate statement?

“The Muslim concept, like the Christian, holds that the soul comes into existence at the same time as the body; thereafter, it has a life of its own, its union with the body being a temporary condition.”

https://www.britannica.com/topic/atman

Yes, it is an accurate statement.

The human body represents the physiological means by-which the highest SOUL of this universe (commonly referred to as "God") replicates itself.

Indeed, at the moment of what we call "death," the human soul is birthed (born/delivered) - literally out of the universe - and into "true reality" where its true form (the same form as God) is finally revealed to it.

At that point, the human body becomes nothing more than the metaphorical equivalent of a higher form of "placental afterbirth" that is left behind within the universe...



It is left behind because it literally cannot leave the universe, for it is an inseparable part of the "entangled" physics of God's mental holography from which the body is formed.

Unlike the soul,...

(which is the "realist" thing, so to speak, in all of existence)

...the human body literally has no form or reality on the outside of God's mind (on the outside of this universe).

As I keep saying, I might be wrong, but I just don't know how the truth of reality, and that of our ultimate and eternal destiny, can get any more "NATURAL" and "ORGANIC" than that.


_______

This knowledge is a projection of the illusory here and now of the mind.

The individual is not the thinker, and thoughts are not in the here and now of life, but exist only in the illusionary here and now of the mind. The here and now of the mind is always [ there and then ] a place and a time where man is not really present and therefore he can not think, speak or act. Only the mind is born, only projection is known.

Therefore, the following quote is a load of nonsense.
“The Muslim concept, like the Christian, holds that the soul comes into existence at the same time as the body; thereafter, it has a life of its own, its union with the body being a temporary condition.”


Nothing is known of the here and now. Except in this artificial conception, aka the unknown known...aka illusory nature of knowledge.

Age wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:21 pm

When the word 'soul' refers to the invisible part of the human being, that is; the thoughts and feelings WITHIN human bodies, then they obviously only come to exist when the human body has come to exist, or come into existence.

Bodies do not come into existence. Bodies are existence. Existence is everywhere at once always in a state of contant flux... [this ever changing stillness] [NOW]

The in-visible is not in the visible - there is only the visible. The visible aka an ( object seen) is the creator of the knower in the exact same instance of knowing.. there is absolutely no division between the knowing and the known, AS life is one unitary REALITY. There is no known beginning nor ending to [reality]...except as an illusory mental concept in this conception [projection]

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:42 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:21 pm

When the word 'soul' refers to the invisible part of the human being, that is; the thoughts and feelings WITHIN human bodies, then they obviously only come to exist when the human body has come to exist, or come into existence.

Bodies do not come into existence.

OF COURSE, and OBVIOUSLY. And that is the VERY REASON WHY I CHOSE to USE the 'human bodies' WORDS.

Just to make it CLEAR 'bodies' AND 'human bodies' are DIFFERENT WORDS, MEANING DIFFERENT things.

'Bodies' as in ALL and EVERY INDIVIDUAL BODY of 'matter' IS ALWAYS HERE-NOW, and ALWAYS CHANGING is SHAPE and FORM. This is VERY OBVIOUS as this can be SEEN and OBSERVED HAPPENING and OCCURRING ALL OF THE TIME. As you SO RIGHT POINTED OUT and SAID, 'Bodies (of matter) do NOT come into Existence. However, 'human bodies' are NOT ALWAYS in THAT SHAPE and FORM, but ARE, as some might say and call, BORN. This MEANS that 'matter' WHEN CHANGED INTO the SHAPE or FORM of a HUMAN BODY is BORN INTO THIS SHAPE or FORM, and THUS in this sense COME INTO existence.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:09 pm Bodies are existence.

'Bodies' ARE bodies.
'Existence IS existence. They BOTH are NOT ONE and the SAME THING.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:09 pm Existence is everywhere at once always in a state of contant flux... [this ever changing stillness] [NOW]

Or, in other words, and as I have been SAYING; Existence, like Life, and like the Universe, is CONSTANTLY-CHANGING, or IN a state of CONSTANT-CHANGE.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:09 pm The in-visible is not in the visible - there is only the visible.

So, if there is ONLY 'the visible', then;

What do 'thoughts', themselves, LOOK LIKE, from human eyes?
What do 'emotions/feelings', themselves, LOOK LIKE, from human eyes?
What does 'the Mind', Itself, LOOK LIKE, from human eyes?
What does 'wind', itself, LOOK LIKE, from human eyes? And,
What does 'space', itself, LOOK LIKE, from human eyes?

Until you can ANSWER these CLARIFYING QUESTIONS, IRREFUTABLY, I wil REMAIN SEEING that there ARE SOME 'things' IN Life, IN Existence, or IN the Universe, which are ACTUALLY INVISIBLE to the physical human eyes.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:09 pm The visible aka an ( object seen) is the creator of the knower in the exact same instance of knowing..

OF COURSE the visible object seen, that is; thee Universe, Itself, IS the Creator of ALL things, INCLUDING the so-called 'knower'.

Were you under some sort of ILLUSION that there was SOME 'thing' outside of, beyond, or apart from thee Universe, Itself?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:09 pm there is absolutely no division between the knowing and the known, AS life is one unitary REALITY.

WHO, here, has been SAYING OTHERWISE?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:09 pm There is no known beginning nor ending to [reality]...except as an illusory mental concept in this conception [projection]

Therefore, and as I WAS SAYING;

Life, like the Universe, IS eternal, and thus NEVER BEGAN, nor NEVER WAS BORN.

seeds wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:56 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:20 am This quote ends a Britannica article about the atman. Is it an accurate statement?

“The Muslim concept, like the Christian, holds that the soul comes into existence at the same time as the body; thereafter, it has a life of its own, its union with the body being a temporary condition.”

https://www.britannica.com/topic/atman

Yes, it is an accurate statement.

The human body represents the physiological means by-which the highest SOUL of this universe (commonly referred to as "God") replicates itself.

The word 'replicate' implies an EXACT copy of itself.

God, Itself, is NOT 'replicating' Its Self through EACH and EVERY human being or ANY other thing.

The so-called "highest SOUL", of thee One and ONLY Universe, is just thee Spirit, Itself, which is just WITHIN absolutely EVERY thing.

If, and WHEN, words are SEPARATED in a way, so that they REFER to NON confusing 'things', then what thee ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE Truth IS, EXACTLY, can be and will be SEEN, MUCH SIMPLER and MUCH EASIER.

The human body is just A human body, which WITHIN there are 'thoughts' and 'feelings (or emotions)' AND a Life-Spirit. Being ABLE to DISTINGUISH between them makes UNDERSTANDING FAR SIMPLER and EASIER.

seeds wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:56 pm Indeed, at the moment of what we call "death," the human soul is birthed (born/delivered) - literally out of the universe - and into "true reality" where its true form (the same form as God) is finally revealed to it.

1. HOW would 'you', a living human being KNOW 'this'?

2. WHERE is this ALLEGED "other place", other than this Universe?

3. WHY is 'this Universe' NOT 'true reality', to you? Where and what are you LIVING IN, if 'this' is NOT 'true reality'?

seeds wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:56 pm At that point, the human body becomes nothing more than the metaphorical equivalent of a higher form of "placental afterbirth" that is left behind within the universe...

The human body is JUST made up of 'matter' and 'space', and absolutely NOTHING. Just like EVERY other visible body IS.

And, AGAIN, what is with this IDEA or PERCEPTION that there is SOME OTHER PLACE other than THIS Universe?

WHER are 'you' OBTAINING this view from, EXACTLY?

seeds wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:56 pm

It is left behind because it literally cannot leave the universe, for it is an inseparable part of the "entangled" physics of God's mental holography from which the body is formed.

Unlike the soul,...

(which is the "realist" thing, so to speak, in all of existence)

...the human body literally has no form or reality on the outside of God's mind (on the outside of this universe).

This is getting MORE WEIRDER, STRANGER, ABSURD, or ILLOGICAL as you move further along here.

To you;

What IS 'God'?

What IS 'God's mind'?

What COULD EVEN BE on the so-called "outside of this universe"?

What IS 'this universe'? And,

How BIG, or SMALL, is 'this universe' compared to what IS on the "outside of this universe"?

seeds wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:56 pm As I keep saying, I might be wrong, but I just don't know how the truth of reality, and that of our ultimate and eternal destiny, can get any more "NATURAL" and "ORGANIC" than that.

'you' ARE Wrong. But anyway;

What does the 'that' word REFER TO, EXACTLY?

I will AWAIT your answers or responses before I move on to asking you to CLARIFY what 'truth of reality' could even mean or refer to, EXACTLY, and how and WHY 'this Universe' does NOT hold and contain the so-called 'ultimate and eternal destiny'? Nor, WHY you think or BELIEVE that 'this Universe' is NOT NATURAL and ORGANIC?

seeds wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:56 pm
_______

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:05 pm

seeds wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:56 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:20 am This quote ends a Britannica article about the atman. Is it an accurate statement?

“The Muslim concept, like the Christian, holds that the soul comes into existence at the same time as the body; thereafter, it has a life of its own, its union with the body being a temporary condition.”

https://www.britannica.com/topic/atman

Yes, it is an accurate statement.

The human body represents the physiological means by-which the highest SOUL of this universe (commonly referred to as "God") replicates itself.

Indeed, at the moment of what we call "death," the human soul is birthed (born/delivered) - literally out of the universe - and into "true reality" where its true form (the same form as God) is finally revealed to it.

At that point, the human body becomes nothing more than the metaphorical equivalent of a higher form of "placental afterbirth" that is left behind within the universe...



It is left behind because it literally cannot leave the universe, for it is an inseparable part of the "entangled" physics of God's mental holography from which the body is formed.

Unlike the soul,...

(which is the "realist" thing, so to speak, in all of existence)

...the human body literally has no form or reality on the outside of God's mind (on the outside of this universe).

As I keep saying, I might be wrong, but I just don't know how the truth of reality, and that of our ultimate and eternal destiny, can get any more "NATURAL" and "ORGANIC" than that.


_______

This knowledge is a projection of the illusory here and now of the mind.

The individual is not the thinker, and thoughts are not in the here and now of life, but exist only in the illusionary here and now of the mind. The here and now of the mind is always [ there and then ] a place and a time where man is not really present and therefore he can not think, speak or act. Only the mind is born, only projection is known.

Therefore, the following quote is a load of nonsense.
“The Muslim concept, like the Christian, holds that the soul comes into existence at the same time as the body; thereafter, it has a life of its own, its union with the body being a temporary condition.”


Nothing is known of the here and now. Except in this artificial conception, aka the unknown known...aka illusory nature of knowledge.

But 'you', "dontaskme", BELIEVE that 'you' KNOW the TRUTH, correct?

Age wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:44 pm
Therefore, and as I WAS SAYING;

Life, like the Universe, IS eternal, and thus NEVER BEGAN, nor NEVER WAS BORN.

''Eternity'' has no way of knowing it is 'alive or dead' except as two opposing opposite concepts in this conception. Which is the ultimate oxymoron and mother of all paradoxes since how could that which is known conceptually to have never began or ever be known to be conceived as being known, as the meaning 'conception' actually implies?

A known concept implies a knower....And so this mental concept known as knower can be nothing other than an eternal illusion.

Knowledge therefore, can only point to the illusory nature of reality. Illusory is the sense that a concept is an image, idea, or notion formed in the ''mind'' which is also just another concept.

In this conception, only the mind is born, not you. Only the illusion is born, not you. And yes, illusions exist, but only as they are known conceptually by the illusion itself.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:35 am

Age wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:44 pm
Therefore, and as I WAS SAYING;

Life, like the Universe, IS eternal, and thus NEVER BEGAN, nor NEVER WAS BORN.

''Eternity'' has no way of knowing it is 'alive or dead' except as two opposing opposite concepts in this conception. Which is the ultimate oxymoron and mother of all paradoxes since how could that which is known conceptually to have never began or ever be known to be conceived as being known, as the meaning 'conception' actually implies?

A known concept implies a knower....And so this mental concept known as knower can be nothing other than an eternal illusion.

Knowledge therefore, can only point to the illusory nature of reality. Illusory is the sense that a concept is an image, idea, or notion formed in the ''mind'' which is also just another concept.

In this conception, only the mind is born, not you. Only the illusion is born, not you. And yes, illusions exist, but only as they are known conceptually by the illusion itself.

If you say so.

If the soul begins with the birth of the body, then Woman determines the birth of the soul.

Is this true?

Walker wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:58 pm If the soul begins with the birth of the body, then Woman determines the birth of the soul.

Is this true?

No, the mechanics of God's "cosmic womb" determines (or facilitates) the birth of the soul.

However, if the woman chooses to abort the baby, then a new (eternal) soul is prevented from coming into existence.

So, in that sense, the woman has a certain amount of control over how many new souls can come into existence through her body.
_______

seeds wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 5:55 pm So, in that sense, the woman has a certain amount of control over how many new souls can come into existence through her body.
_______

Yes, in that sense, Woman has the gatekeeper's power to create souls. That's demi-god responsibility, which is impervious to mere mortal judgement, as proven by the culture's existence.

Walker wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:58 pm If the soul begins with the birth of the body, then Woman determines the birth of the soul.

Is this true?

It's true only within the dream of separation, the duality of spacetime that is human fairy-tale story telling.

Other than that it's just a pile of nonsense.