Philosophy Now Forum

Is there such a thing as romantic love? I see people on dating apps looking for partners and beautiful folk meeting and socializing at bars with each other. It all seems so alien and distant from where I'm at.

Just look at the divorce rate...

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:55 am Just look at the divorce rate...

I've heard that divorce and/or breaking up can be very painful. LIfe and love have the potential to be such wonderful things and yet they fall so short. This world is so broken. I think if there is a God, then God should feel shame for how broken this world is that it created.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:32 am Is there such a thing as romantic love?

Sure, but it's fairly shallow. If that's all there is, it won't last. If it's only the beginning, it has hope.

I see people on dating apps looking for partners and beautiful folk meeting and socializing at bars with each other.

That's on stage. In real life, without the costumes, makeup and lighting, most of us are not all that beautiful.

It all seems so alien and distant from where I'm at.

That's probably because it's make-believe.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:18 am I've heard that divorce and/or breaking up can be very painful.

Yup. They are. Like a broken leg - but you survive and maybe learn something.

LIfe and love have the potential to be such wonderful things and yet they fall so short.

Sometimes.

This world is so broken.

No, it's just real, raw and nasty.

I think if there is a God, then God should feel shame for how broken this world is that it created.

If there were a creator god, I suppose he'd still be practicing, like an apprentice ceramist, making one wonky pot after another, breaking them and trying again until he gets it right.
But that's nothing to do with your love-life. In this imperfect, wonky world, lots of humans (as well as members of other species) find a mate they can count on. That's not about romance or being beautiful; it's about understanding, trust, affection and acceptance.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:32 am Is there such a thing as romantic love?

Yes romatic love does exist, it exists as a feeling, but like all feelings, it's a fleeting temporal sensation.

Unfortunately, sensations have a mind of their own, there is nothing in reality that has any control over their appearance. No sensation can be bottled to keep forever, or held in the hand or have any place to be on a permanent basis.

Romantic love is something that can be enjoyed in the moment of it's visit, but it is just a visitor, it's like a butterfly, lovely to look at in the moment, but to hold a butterfly too tight will crush it, it must always be allowed to fly away.

.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:32 am Is there such a thing as romantic love? I see people on dating apps looking for partners and beautiful folk meeting and socializing at bars with each other. It all seems so alien and distant from where I'm at.

Because of all its disappointments, ultimately romantic love is transcended by teaching one the ways of unconditional love.

Unconditional love can be learned in other ways.

Romantic love is simply a portal to what everyone learns, sooner or later.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:32 am Is there such a thing as romantic love? I see people on dating apps looking for partners and beautiful folk meeting and socializing at bars with each other. It all seems so alien and distant from where I'm at.

I always find the question revealing.

My wife and I were bikers for years. We both rode big Harleys and were frequetly asked why we enjoyed it so much.

"HOG," riders have a saying about the freedom and exhiliration of bike riding others' question. "If you have to ask, you cannot understand."

My wife and I have enjoyed romantic love for many years. For those who know it, there really is not much else in this world that makes life worth living. It is certainly not for everyone and most will probably never find it, but then most people don't find much of value in their lives. But if you have to ask, you cannot understand.

So my answer to your question is, of course there is romantic love, but it's something you do and earn and must be worthy of. It's not something that, "happens," to you, and it is extremely costly and very few are able or willing to pay the price of the most valuable jewel available in this world--the bliss of romantic love.

When someone loves another it is a recognition and appreciation of that other as the most important and valuable person in their life without whom life would not be worth living. There is hardly a more vile or disgusting idea than, "unconditional love," which is like saying, "there is nothing about you worth loving and that's why I love you." It would be better to be hated than loved unconditionally which makes one no more valueable than a piece of trash or refuse.

Skip wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 7:01 am ... find a mate they can count on. That's not about romance or being beautiful; it's about understanding, trust, affection and acceptance.

Every individual's experience is different, but mine is a little more than that. I'm in my eighties, and my wife in her seventies, and our love is more, "romantic," (because we've both grown so much) then ever. Perhaps it's our love, but my wife does not have a single grey hair, and just enough creases in her face to land character which has made her more beautiful to me. I feel sorry for those who find they've lost romance or find no beauty in those they love, but I'm afraid it is what most experience.

[I'm probably not a very good judge of feminine beauty because I am a helpless romantic philogenist (woman lover). I fall in love with almost every woman I meet and find them all beautiful. If you think this bothers my wife, it doesn't. She understands that a man who does not love women in general, will never love one in particular, with that special love that is forever, which is what romantic love really is.]

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 7:46 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:32 am Is there such a thing as romantic love?

Yes romatic love does exist, it exists as a feeling, but like all feelings, it's a fleeting temporal sensation.

Unfortunately, sensations have a mind of their own, there is nothing in reality that has any control over their appearance. No sensation can be bottled to keep forever, or held in the hand or have any place to be on a permanent basis.

Romantic love is something that can be enjoyed in the moment of it's visit, but it is just a visitor, it's like a butterfly, lovely to look at in the moment, but to hold a butterfly too tight will crush it, it must always be allowed to fly away.

.

One must be worthy of romantic love to find it. There must be something of value in the individual that is worth loving and worth pursuing as one's highest value. Most of those who repudiate romantic love have simply despaired of finding it because they know they will never earn or deserve it.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:17 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 7:46 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:32 am Is there such a thing as romantic love?

Yes romatic love does exist, it exists as a feeling, but like all feelings, it's a fleeting temporal sensation.

Unfortunately, sensations have a mind of their own, there is nothing in reality that has any control over their appearance. No sensation can be bottled to keep forever, or held in the hand or have any place to be on a permanent basis.

Romantic love is something that can be enjoyed in the moment of it's visit, but it is just a visitor, it's like a butterfly, lovely to look at in the moment, but to hold a butterfly too tight will crush it, it must always be allowed to fly away.

.

One must be worthy of romantic love to find it. There must be something of value in the individual that is worth loving and worth pursuing as one's highest value. Most of those who repudiate romantic love have simply despaired of finding it because they know they will never earn or deserve it.

How do you "earn" or "deserve" romantic love? By what means can I achieve it?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:49 pm

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:17 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 7:46 am

Yes romatic love does exist, it exists as a feeling, but like all feelings, it's a fleeting temporal sensation.

Unfortunately, sensations have a mind of their own, there is nothing in reality that has any control over their appearance. No sensation can be bottled to keep forever, or held in the hand or have any place to be on a permanent basis.

Romantic love is something that can be enjoyed in the moment of it's visit, but it is just a visitor, it's like a butterfly, lovely to look at in the moment, but to hold a butterfly too tight will crush it, it must always be allowed to fly away.

.

One must be worthy of romantic love to find it. There must be something of value in the individual that is worth loving and worth pursuing as one's highest value. Most of those who repudiate romantic love have simply despaired of finding it because they know they will never earn or deserve it.

How do you "earn" or "deserve" romantic love? By what means can I achieve it?

You have to make yourself a person that is worth loving by another, someone another person can admire and value because of your character, achievement, and integrity. You have to be someone another will find pleasure in because you are interesting and enjoyable for them to be with. You have to be someone another will find is always reasonable, who will never resort to manipulation by appealing to anything other than their own best reason--never threatening, appealing to fears, or feelings, or emotions, or their weaknesses or irrational desires.

Of course the one you love must be to you what you are to them, and once you have chosen each other as the love of your life, your objective will always the happiness of the other because they are the source of yours.

What any of these will mean in specifics will be different for everyone, because everyone's interests and desires are different, but in principle I think these apply to everyone.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:39 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:49 pm

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:17 pm
One must be worthy of romantic love to find it. There must be something of value in the individual that is worth loving and worth pursuing as one's highest value. Most of those who repudiate romantic love have simply despaired of finding it because they know they will never earn or deserve it.

How do you "earn" or "deserve" romantic love? By what means can I achieve it?

You have to make yourself a person that is worth loving by another, someone another person can admire and value because of your character, achievement, and integrity. You have to be someone another will find pleasure in because you are interesting and enjoyable for them to be with. You have to be someone another will find is always reasonable, who will never resort to manipulation by appealing to anything other than their own best reason--never threatening, appealing to fears, or feelings, or emotions, or their weaknesses or irrational desires.

Of course the one you love must be to you what you are to them, and once you have chosen each other as the love of your life, your objective will always the happiness of the other because they are the source of yours.

What any of these will mean in specifics will be different for everyone, because everyone's interests and desires are different, but in principle I think these apply to everyone.

Well, it's almost impossible to have "character" and "achievement" with a serious mental illness. Just not my life I guess. Maybe next time around God or the great hoobdy doobdy (or whatever runs this world) will bless me with something other than schizoaffective disorder. In the meantime I'll just have to persevere without romantic love, I guess.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:07 pm

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:39 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:49 pm

How do you "earn" or "deserve" romantic love? By what means can I achieve it?

You have to make yourself a person that is worth loving by another, someone another person can admire and value because of your character, achievement, and integrity. You have to be someone another will find pleasure in because you are interesting and enjoyable for them to be with. You have to be someone another will find is always reasonable, who will never resort to manipulation by appealing to anything other than their own best reason--never threatening, appealing to fears, or feelings, or emotions, or their weaknesses or irrational desires.

Of course the one you love must be to you what you are to them, and once you have chosen each other as the love of your life, your objective will always the happiness of the other because they are the source of yours.

What any of these will mean in specifics will be different for everyone, because everyone's interests and desires are different, but in principle I think these apply to everyone.

Well, it's almost impossible to have "character" and "achievement" with a serious mental illness. Just not my life I guess. Maybe next time around God or the great hoobdy doobdy (or whatever runs this world) will bless me with something other than schizoaffective disorder. In the meantime I'll just have to persevere without romantic love, I guess.

Have you read A Beautiful Mind? Overcoming schizofrenia is not impossible and can definitely include both success and romantic love. [More here and in his own words here.]

[There is a movie made from the book, which iI think is a bit of a distortion, but you might find it interesting and something to think about.]

Don't ever give up! There are no guarantees in life. One can never know what they may achieve until they try. The only thing that is certain is you will never know what you might have achieved if you give up. No one achieves everything they could possibly aspire too, but success is achieving and being all one really can.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:07 pm In the meantime I'll just have to persevere without romantic love, I guess.

That part is easy romantic love so often itself being a sign of disease. Plenty of people live without it and quite well to boot.