Philosophy Now Forum

"The errors of our time come from Christianity without the supernatural. Secularization is the cause—and primarily humanism.

Religion in so far as it is a source of consolation is a hindrance to true faith: in this sense atheism is a purification. I have to be atheistic with the part of myself which is not made for God. Among those men in whom the supernatural part has not been awakened, the atheists are right and the believers wrong."

Excerpted from Simone Weil‘s Gravity and Grace. First French edition 1947. Translated by Emma Crawford. English language edition 1963. Routledge and Kegan Paul, London.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:54 pm Simone weil was an atheist who died a Christian mystic yet writes about atheism. In life people seem to battle to the death over atheism vs religion. What can be said that all those experts in belief or denial haven't already argued over?

"The errors of our time come from Christianity without the supernatural. Secularization is the cause—and primarily humanism.

Religion in so far as it is a source of consolation is a hindrance to true faith: in this sense atheism is a purification. I have to be atheistic with the part of myself which is not made for God. Among those men in whom the supernatural part has not been awakened, the atheists are right and the believers wrong."

Excerpted from Simone Weil‘s Gravity and Grace. First French edition 1947. Translated by Emma Crawford. English language edition 1963. Routledge and Kegan Paul, London.

How can seekers of truth understand this in a world caught up in the struggle between blind belief and blind denial?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:54 pm Simone weil was an atheist who died a Christian mystic yet writes about atheism. In life people seem to battle to the death over atheism vs religion. What can be said that all those experts in belief or denial haven't already argued over?

"The errors of our time come from Christianity without the supernatural. Secularization is the cause—and primarily humanism.

Religion in so far as it is a source of consolation is a hindrance to true faith: in this sense atheism is a purification. I have to be atheistic with the part of myself which is not made for God. Among those men in whom the supernatural part has not been awakened, the atheists are right and the believers wrong."

Excerpted from Simone Weil‘s Gravity and Grace. First French edition 1947. Translated by Emma Crawford. English language edition 1963. Routledge and Kegan Paul, London.

How can seekers of truth understand this in a world caught up in the struggle between blind belief and blind denial?

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:42 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:54 pm Simone weil was an atheist who died a Christian mystic yet writes about atheism. In life people seem to battle to the death over atheism vs religion. What can be said that all those experts in belief or denial haven't already argued over?

"The errors of our time come from Christianity without the supernatural. Secularization is the cause—and primarily humanism.

Religion in so far as it is a source of consolation is a hindrance to true faith: in this sense atheism is a purification. I have to be atheistic with the part of myself which is not made for God. Among those men in whom the supernatural part has not been awakened, the atheists are right and the believers wrong."

Excerpted from Simone Weil‘s Gravity and Grace. First French edition 1947. Translated by Emma Crawford. English language edition 1963. Routledge and Kegan Paul, London.

How can seekers of truth understand this in a world caught up in the struggle between blind belief and blind denial?

1. We are not in a world which struggles between " blind belief and blind denial". All belief is blind, and aside that is healthy skepticism.

Belief may be blind but if skepticism only gives its opinions about what is wrong it is incapable of pointing out the inner path leading to the experience of meaning which is the goal of the metaphysical search.

2. How can seekers of truth understand this excerpt? No one can understand this because it is a confused bunch of word salad. It might have had some meaning within the context of whatever Weil may had written before it, but alone it is nothing more than a series of barely connected words, ambiguities and misconceptions.

A person has a part in their higher selves capable of more than reactive animal consciousness and can open to human consciousness or that which connects above and below. Apparently it seems absurd if you have not experienced it. A person may know a multitude of facts but for those in search of meaning, they need to open to noesis or what Plato said allows us to "remember" it.

3. Seriously WTF could "true faith" be? How arrogant could one person be to claim to make this a thing and pretend to speak about it?

There are three qualities of faith: foolish faith in the body, indoctrinated faith IN government or a deity, and the conscious faith OF Christ. To acquire conscious faith, their supernatural part must be awakened.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:01 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:42 pm
1. We are not in a world which struggles between " blind belief and blind denial". All belief is blind, and aside that is healthy skepticism.

Belief may be blind but if skepticism only gives its opinions about what is wrong it is incapable of pointing out the inner path leading to the experience of meaning which is the goal of the metaphysical search.

Skepticism is not a thing that gives opinions. It is an attitude of mind that resists opinions, and can identfy a thing offers as fact as a thing that is, in fact an opinion.
ANyone arrogant enough to think they can identify a oath to pointing out the inner path leading to the experience of meaning which is the goal of the metaphysical search. is risible.

2. How can seekers of truth understand this excerpt? No one can understand this because it is a confused bunch of word salad. It might have had some meaning within the context of whatever Weil may had written before it, but alone it is nothing more than a series of barely connected words, ambiguities and misconceptions.

A person has a part in their higher selves capable of more than reactive animal consciousness and can open to human consciousness or that which connects above and below. Apparently it seems absurd if you have not experienced it. A person may know a multitude of facts but for those in search of meaning, they need to open to noesis or what Plato said allows us to "remember" it.

You sound like a person deeply involved.... deeply involved in masterbation.

3. Seriously WTF could "true faith" be? How arrogant could one person be to claim to make this a thing and pretend to speak about it?

There are three qualities of faith: foolish faith in the body, indoctrinated faith IN government or a deity, and the conscious faith OF Christ. To acquire conscious faith, their supernatural part must be awakened.

Not remotely helpful.

Skepticism is not a thing that gives opinions. It is an attitude of mind that resists opinions, and can identfy a thing offers as fact as a thing that is, in fact an opinion.
ANyone arrogant enough to think they can identify a oath to pointing out the inner path leading to the experience of meaning which is the goal of the metaphysical search. is risible.

"The poison of skepticism becomes, like alcoholism, tuberculosis, and some other diseases, much more virulent in a hitherto virgin soil." Simone Weil.

1 Corinthians 2: 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

"Pity them my children, they are far from home and no one knows them. Let those in quest of God be careful lest appearances deceive them in these people who are peculiar and hard to place; no one rightly knows them but those in whom the same light shines" Meister Eckhart

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:01 pm Mark 9: 23 “‘If you can’?” said Jesus. “Everything is possible for one who believes.” 24 Immediately the boy’s father exclaimed, “I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!”

Christianity without the supernatural is based on blind belief that the world is able to produce Man's deeper need for meaning.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:01 pm Only after living in the world and experiencing the hypocrisy around a person does a person come to see that it doesn't. Regardless of how much money, fame, and sexual conquests a person receives from the world still leaves a person feeing empty. Blind belief is defined by our emotional attraction the logic of worldly facts

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:01 pm Often the supernatural becomes confused with imagination and devolves into imagination. The atheist revolts against these flights of fancy and his dualistic logic is often better than the blind believer's. The Christian is then a person who received the objective experience of the supernatural. Plato' divided line no longer seems absurd. The transition between truth below the sun, the domain of our senses. and the divided line, and the greater truth above the line now makes perfect sense.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:01 pm But once a person denies greater truth above the line, they defend it from blind denial and the logic of the facts which create our world not allowing their higher parts to open.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:01 pm Blind belief easily falls victim to imagination while blind denial falls victim to pride in what they know: the fragments of truth.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:01 pm There are a few like Simone Weil who can think like a scientist yet have the supernatural awareness of a mystic. Able to ascend out of Plato's Cave and inwardly turn to the light, what is their responsibility to themselves and to the slowly dying world caught up in the struggle between blind belief and/or blind denial but with the need to awaken?

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:42 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:54 pm Simone weil was an atheist who died a Christian mystic yet writes about atheism. In life people seem to battle to the death over atheism vs religion. What can be said that all those experts in belief or denial haven't already argued over?

"The errors of our time come from Christianity without the supernatural. Secularization is the cause—and primarily humanism.

Religion in so far as it is a source of consolation is a hindrance to true faith: in this sense atheism is a purification. I have to be atheistic with the part of myself which is not made for God. Among those men in whom the supernatural part has not been awakened, the atheists are right and the believers wrong."

Excerpted from Simone Weil‘s Gravity and Grace. First French edition 1947. Translated by Emma Crawford. English language edition 1963. Routledge and Kegan Paul, London.

How can seekers of truth understand this in a world caught up in the struggle between blind belief and blind denial?

1. We are not in a world which struggles between " blind belief and blind denial". All belief is blind, and aside that is healthy skepticism.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:42 pm 2. How can seekers of truth understand this excerpt? No one can understand this because it is a confused bunch of word salad. It might have had some meaning within the context of whatever Weil may had written before it, but alone it is nothing more than a series of barely connected words, ambiguities and misconceptions.
3. Seriously WTF could "true faith" be? How arrogant could one person be to claim to make this a thing and pretend to speak about it?

Once you LEARN and UNDERSTAND, FULLY, who and what thee True Self IS, EXACTLY, then you will STOP 'worshiping' the Wrong 'ones' and START 'worshiping' the one and ONLY True and Right One.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 10:23 pm Sculptor

Skepticism is not a thing that gives opinions. It is an attitude of mind that resists opinions, and can identfy a thing offers as fact as a thing that is, in fact an opinion.
ANyone arrogant enough to think they can identify a oath to pointing out the inner path leading to the experience of meaning which is the goal of the metaphysical search. is risible.

Yes, skepticism is an attitude of mind that becomes corrupted by negative emotions.

It is incapable of the value of doubt with conscious impartiality.

"The poison of skepticism becomes, like alcoholism, tuberculosis, and some other diseases, much more virulent in a hitherto virgin soil." Simone Weil.

Skepticism when clothed with negative emotions like denial prevents opening to the vertical inner path Plato described. Finding the vertical inner path leading to meaning needs inwardly turning to the light rather than continually being caught up in shadows. But when a person is caught up in the negativity of skepticism, our higher parts remain closed to the supernatural experience from intuition and noesis. The idea is considered laughable and worthy of condemnation to skeptics lacking experience as often seen on forums dominated by secularism

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:20 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 10:23 pm Sculptor

Skepticism is not a thing that gives opinions. It is an attitude of mind that resists opinions, and can identfy a thing offers as fact as a thing that is, in fact an opinion.
ANyone arrogant enough to think they can identify a oath to pointing out the inner path leading to the experience of meaning which is the goal of the metaphysical search. is risible.

Yes, skepticism is an attitude of mind that becomes corrupted by negative emotions.

Rubbish. It protects you from stupid ideas. That is all positive.

"Stupid ideas" is an expression of negative emotion. Nothing can be built upon it so the sceptic seeks to tear it down
It is incapable of the value of doubt with conscious impartiality.

"IT" does not have volition.You are just verbal masterbating. Skepticism is doubt; healthy doubt

"The poison of skepticism becomes, like alcoholism, tuberculosis, and some other diseases, much more virulent in a hitherto virgin soil." Simone Weil.

Healthy doubt is a necessary quality when built on impartial impressions. But the person who lives by indoctrinated negative preconceptions lacks impartiality by definition. The effect of skepticism is especially harmful for those too young to know the difference between healthy doubt and skepticism: doubt created by negative emotions or the emotions creating blind denial.

Skepticism when clothed with negative emotions like denial prevents opening to the vertical inner path Plato described. Finding the vertical inner path leading to meaning needs inwardly turning to the light rather than continually being caught up in shadows. But when a person is caught up in the negativity of skepticism, our higher parts remain closed to the supernatural experience from intuition and noesis. The idea is considered laughable and worthy of condemnation to skeptics lacking experience as often seen on forums dominated by secularism