Philosophy Now Forum

Time travel is science fiction. You cannot travel to the past because the past no longer exists. It's gone. Also you cannot travel to the future because it doesn't exist yet. One cannot go somewhere that does not exist.

The grandfather paradox can be solved by the creation of an alternative reality when the grandfather is killed. However another solution is simply that one cannot go back to the past to kill the grandfather in the first place.

Jori wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:32 am Time travel is science fiction. You cannot travel to the past because the past no longer exists. It's gone.

But if, and when, you do 'there', then 'there' exists, and thus is NOT gone.

Jori wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:32 am Also you cannot travel to the future because it doesn't exist yet. One cannot go somewhere that does not exist.

But if, and when, one goes 'there', then 'there' is, obviously, existing.

Jori wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:32 am The grandfather paradox can be solved by the creation of an alternative reality when the grandfather is killed.

If, and when, human beings learn how to what is wrongly called "time travel", and learn just how simple and easy it really is, then that will also be at the stage in evolution when human beings have gone BEYOND being GREEDY and STUPID enough to even want to 'go back' and change ANY thing.

Jori wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:32 am However another solution is simply that one cannot go back to the past to kill the grandfather in the first place.

So, are you saying and claiming here that 'you', the one known as "jori" here, KNOWS what WILL happen forever more in this regard, correct?

Jori wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:32 am Time travel is science fiction. You cannot travel to the past because the past no longer exists. It's gone. Also you cannot travel to the future because it doesn't exist yet. One cannot go somewhere that does not exist.

The grandfather paradox can be solved by the creation of an alternative reality when the grandfather is killed. However another solution is simply that one cannot go back to the past to kill the grandfather in the first place.

We travel to the future AND receive messages from the past all the time!

If you don't believe me write a note for your tomorrow-self. When you arrive at tomorrow - read the note.

Boom! Message from the past.

It's traveling to and sending messages to the past that is super-difficult.

Jori wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:32 am Time travel is science fiction. You cannot travel to the past because the past no longer exists. It's gone. Also you cannot travel to the future because it doesn't exist yet. One cannot go somewhere that does not exist.

The grandfather paradox can be solved by the creation of an alternative reality when the grandfather is killed. However another solution is simply that one cannot go back to the past to kill the grandfather in the first place.

Nothing is impossible. The proper combination of the proper elements creates the condition of time travel. In other words, the formula for time travel exists, but has yet to be published for mass consumption.

It is likely, but not proven by any acceptable standard, that signals from future technological applications of the time-travel formula are being broadcast right at this moment, from the future to now, however like the formula itself, the known transmission frequency that shapes the instrument for detection has yet to be published for mass consumption. Why?

Probably because the Time Lords have learned the futility of ambition, but also probably because the meteor delivering the currently unknown elements required to construct the mechanical receiver of future messages, has yet to arrive.

This is all proven by da Vinci’s incomplete receptions from the future which he put into some drawings, and which implies that the receiver could have an organic basis: perhaps in the form of a yet-to-arrive virus, or spores, piggybacking on the space rock.

Amplification or negation?
Further flight or picking nits from feathers?

Jori wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:32 am Time travel is science fiction. You cannot travel to the past because the past no longer exists. It's gone. Also you cannot travel to the future because it doesn't exist yet. One cannot go somewhere that does not exist.

The grandfather paradox can be solved by the creation of an alternative reality when the grandfather is killed. However another solution is simply that one cannot go back to the past to kill the grandfather in the first place.

That second solution is exactly right, Jori, especially if there exists the possibility that the core of our being (i.e., our "soul") is "delivered" (born into) a higher context of reality after physical death.

It's no secret around here that I believe in and promote a "Berkeleyan-ish" interpretation of reality which suggests that the universe is the "mind" of a higher consciousness,...



...and that at the moment of death, our own minds will be "born out" of it, and thus awaken into a higher context of reality where our true and eternal form will finally be revealed to us....



With that being understood, allow me to present a slightly paraphrased excerpt from a book that I self-published back in 2008 that pertains to the topic of your thread....

The notion of time travel into the past is based solely upon the fact that the physicists (materialists) believe that nothing exists above and beyond physical matter; that matter itself is the alpha and omega of the "all that is," and that life is merely a fortuitous by-product of the "accidental" arrangement of matter.

Following from that, it is loosely believed (at least in the "Block Universe" theory) that the quantum realm still contains all of the informational parameters that underpinned the construction of objective reality at any given point in time, stretching all the way back to the beginning. In which case, if one could just locate and interpolate oneself within those parameters (into that "field of information"), one could re-experience the same conditions that the parameters represented. And that would also include the experiencing of the presence of the actual minds of the humans who inhabited the bodies of any bygone era.

Keep in mind that in pure materialism, the lives of humans (or any other lifeform, for that matter) only exist because of the arrangement of matter itself. So the mind of any human would merely be another informationally-based parameter in the waving quantum underpinning of the universe - like the color of your hair or eyes - for example, and would be inextricably linked to the physical matter that gave rise to the mind's existence.

And the point is that if one could simply re-experience the "matter waves" of the past, one would also experience the presence of the living mind within those waves (as it actually was) at the point of interpolation of the time traveler.

And therein lies the paradox that if you killed your great, great, grandfather when he was a child in that context, how would that affect the future status of his (non) progeny, which includes you, the time traveler?

However, the ultimate point I am leading to is that the materialists are dead wrong in their belief in the primacy of matter.

Mind is not a by-product of matter. No, matter - as seen in the arrangement of the phenomenal features of the universe - is a by-product of mind (as in the mind of the higher consciousness to whom the universe belongs)....

Now, if for whatever reason (blurriness of the print, print too small, nut-jobery of my assertions) you skipped trying to read the dialogue in the illustrations, all I am suggesting is that whatever an alleged time traveler might experience if he (or she) could indeed somehow access the quantum information that underpinned the events of the past,...

...it would not contain the actual souls that existed back then,...

(no more than the information encoded on a DVD movie disc contains the actual actors)

...and that's because all past souls who have lived and died on earth exist in a higher context of reality and cannot be touched or affected by anything that anyone does within the material parameters of this lower context of reality.
_______

Age wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:43 am

Jori wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:32 am Time travel is science fiction. You cannot travel to the past because the past no longer exists. It's gone.

But if, and when, you do 'there', then 'there' exists, and thus is NOT gone.

But if you are there, it's not, "the past," is it? lt's now.

Jori wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:32 am Time travel is science fiction. You cannot travel to the past because the past no longer exists. It's gone. Also you cannot travel to the future because it doesn't exist yet. One cannot go somewhere that does not exist.

The grandfather paradox can be solved by the creation of an alternative reality when the grandfather is killed. However another solution is simply that one cannot go back to the past to kill the grandfather in the first place.

Yes, you cannot go back.
But we are all travellers in time. We are all going forwards in time, and if you really want you can go much faster in time if you simply go very very fast.
The closer you get to the speed of light the faster your subjective time. This means if you travel near the speed of light then return to earth you will be in the future.
Of course there is no going back.

Walker wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:41 am

Jori wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:32 am Time travel is science fiction. You cannot travel to the past because the past no longer exists. It's gone. Also you cannot travel to the future because it doesn't exist yet. One cannot go somewhere that does not exist.

The grandfather paradox can be solved by the creation of an alternative reality when the grandfather is killed. However another solution is simply that one cannot go back to the past to kill the grandfather in the first place.

Nothing is impossible.

DUH
Oh dear - another American without an imagination.

Walker wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:41 am

Jori wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:32 am Time travel is science fiction. You cannot travel to the past because the past no longer exists. It's gone. Also you cannot travel to the future because it doesn't exist yet. One cannot go somewhere that does not exist.

The grandfather paradox can be solved by the creation of an alternative reality when the grandfather is killed. However another solution is simply that one cannot go back to the past to kill the grandfather in the first place.

Nothing is impossible. The proper combination of the proper elements creates the condition of time travel. In other words, the formula for time travel exists, but has yet to be published for mass consumption.

DO we have to wait for Trump and Qanon to give us all the details?

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:07 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:43 am

Jori wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:32 am Time travel is science fiction. You cannot travel to the past because the past no longer exists. It's gone.

But if, and when, you do 'there', then 'there' exists, and thus is NOT gone.

But if you are there, it's not, "the past," is it? lt's now.

OF COURSE. This is because there is ONLY EVER, 'NOW', ALWAYS.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:27 pm

Jori wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:32 am Time travel is science fiction. You cannot travel to the past because the past no longer exists. It's gone. Also you cannot travel to the future because it doesn't exist yet. One cannot go somewhere that does not exist.

The grandfather paradox can be solved by the creation of an alternative reality when the grandfather is killed. However another solution is simply that one cannot go back to the past to kill the grandfather in the first place.

Yes, you cannot go back.
But we are all travellers in time. We are all going forwards in time, and if you really want you can go much faster in time if you simply go very very fast.

If, to 'you', 'you' are going IN 'time', and 'you' can go faster IN 'time', then what, EXACTLY, IS 'time', to 'you'?

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:27 pm The closer you get to the speed of light the faster your subjective time.

LOL

What is 'subjective time' compared to 'time', itself, to you?

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:27 pm This means if you travel near the speed of light then return to earth you will be in the future.

LOL
LOL
LOL

Is ANOTHER PRIME EXAMPLE of when one hears some 'thing', then they just BELIEVE 'it' is true WITHOUT ANY ACTUAL consideration put into what they have HEARD.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:27 pm Of course there is no going back.

What are you basing this "Of course" on EXACTLY?

Walker wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:41 am

Jori wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:32 am Time travel is science fiction. You cannot travel to the past because the past no longer exists. It's gone. Also you cannot travel to the future because it doesn't exist yet. One cannot go somewhere that does not exist.

The grandfather paradox can be solved by the creation of an alternative reality when the grandfather is killed. However another solution is simply that one cannot go back to the past to kill the grandfather in the first place.

Nothing is impossible. The proper combination of the proper elements creates the condition of time travel. In other words, the formula for time travel exists, but has yet to be published for mass consumption.

VERY, VERY True, in a sense.

Walker wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:41 am It is likely, but not proven by any acceptable standard, that signals from future technological applications of the time-travel formula are being broadcast right at this moment, from the future to now, however like the formula itself, the known transmission frequency that shapes the instrument for detection has yet to be published for mass consumption. Why?

Probably because the Time Lords have learned the futility of ambition, but also probably because the meteor delivering the currently unknown elements required to construct the mechanical receiver of future messages, has yet to arrive.

The reason WHY the 'formula' for what 'you', human beings, in the days when this was being written, Wrongly call "time travel" and have NOT YET 'found' is because 'you', human beings, have NOT YET evolved out of and past 'your' GREEDY and SELFISH ways.

Paradigm shifts occur WHEN they FIT WITH Nature, Itself.

Walker wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:41 am This is all proven by da Vinci’s incomplete receptions from the future which he put into some drawings, and which implies that the receiver could have an organic basis: perhaps in the form of a yet-to-arrive virus, or spores, piggybacking on the space rock.

Amplification or negation?
Further flight or picking nits from feathers?

WHY do you ASSUME the 'formula' is being, or even needed to be, broadcast back to 'you', human beings?

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:29 pm DUH
Oh dear - another American without an imagination.

Da Vinci received parts of the formula from the future but understood according to his milieu. Like all things known to man, the formula broadcast to him from the future was also a compounded thing. In other words, key elements of the formula relied on materials and material processes not available at the time it was received, e.g., he couldn’t build a chopper that would take flight with foot power and wooden wings, the strength to weight ratio was all wrong, but he did receive elements of the design, and he was a dreamer.

The future can and did broadcast an image of Dick Tracy’s wristwatch to some past receivers with the fine tuning to pick-up bits and pieces of the future, and like da Vinci draw pictures about it, with some words for context. The future can broadcast things like Captain Kirk’s handheld communicator to certain past receivers that by providence or some other means have fine-tuned reception to the future's transmissions, however as far as we know there are no strong, modest men who can literally transcribe entire formulas from future receptions, seeing as how those formulas are comprised of compounded particulars not yet discovered, and seeing as how tight lips don’t sink ships.

Age wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 6:24 am WHY do you ASSUME the 'formula' is being, or even needed to be, broadcast back to 'you', human beings?

Sadly for those who quest with questions, detailed answers won’t survive transmissions from the future until the singularity occurs, at which time, some say time ends.

*

Consider, for example, you may, or may not, think that you can control your use of CAPS. Folks like to think they’re making such choices. However, you are actually tuned to something broadcasting from the future, tuned to some element of a formula, but it’s only a bit of the broadcast.

But from that, and from da Vinci’s ruminations, we can figure that there is something significant in the future that involves CAPS, and you as receiver are choicelessly transmitting what you receive of that. You may think you know why you're doing it, but that’s just human nature to think that, it’s the image-of-God-the-creator that is inherently inviting the thought that any individual can control the CAP transmission. Folks ordering chaos is just what folks do, or try to, even with the weather.

As an unsullied receiver, what you’re receiving and involuntarily transmitting as CAPS when you do receive it, would be a transmission from the future that causes you to in turn, transmit CAPS. This could be a tiny piece of the time-travel formula, a part of a relationship with some compounded thing as yet discovered, related in some way to the formula.

seeds wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:01 pm

Jori wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:32 am Time travel is science fiction. You cannot travel to the past because the past no longer exists. It's gone. Also you cannot travel to the future because it doesn't exist yet. One cannot go somewhere that does not exist.

The grandfather paradox can be solved by the creation of an alternative reality when the grandfather is killed. However another solution is simply that one cannot go back to the past to kill the grandfather in the first place.

That second solution is exactly right, Jori, especially if there exists the possibility that the core of our being (i.e., our "soul") is "delivered" (born into) a higher context of reality after physical death.

If the word 'our' refers to 'human beings', the words 'core' and 'soul' refers to some 'internal Being', and the words 'physical death' refers to the physical human body not breathing nor pumping blood anymore, then there is NO 'delivered', (NO 'born into') ANY thing AT ALL.

The 'you', or the 'person', is just the invisible 'thoughts and emotions' WITHIN a physical human body. After the physical human body stops pumping blood and breathing, 'you', the 'person' or what I call 'soul', REMAIN within this One and ONLY Existence, or Reality, in the form of what effect 'it' has had on the so-called 'world' WILL REMAIN FOREVER MORE in one way or another. These, invisible, 'persons', 'souls', or just the 'you', are just the individual invisible 'beings' within individual physical human bodies. The 'human being' just refers to the 'human' (body) with a 'being' within.

The 'core' of All of 'you', beings, however, is just One, and ONLY One, 'Being'. Which is ETERNAL, and so is NEVER born and NEVER died.

Although ALL 'you', 'souls' and 'beings' ,NEVER 'die', in the sense that 'you' ALL have some sort of everlasting effect on the 'world', after the body has "gone" as it is Wrongly known, 'you' are ALL 'born'. NOT when the physical body comes out of the 'mother' but when 'you' are given a name and/or perceived of as a 'person', (a 'soul', a 'being', and/or a 'living entity'). Also, and by the way, as the physical body is continually getting "older" 'you' are continually getting 'newer', as 'new' thoughts are ALWAYS coming along, that is; while the body is pumping blood and breathing. The very internal Being, at the ACTUAL 'core', just ALWAYS IS, FOREVER.

There is NO so-called "higher context of reality after physical death". There is ONLY so-called "physical death" to 'you', human beings, in the days when this was being written, but this ONLY existed in the form of the 'concept' that when the physical human body stops breathing and pumping blood then "it is dead". But, what can be OBVIOUSLY SEEN and PROVED True is the physical human body just CHANGES in shape and form, which some call "decay". But just like ALL physicality, there is NO actual physical death as such as ALL physicality is just continually changing in shape and form ALWAYS, or FOREVER.

The 'Being' at the CORE of ALL physicality ALSO IS ALWAYS, or FOREVER.

The invisible 'Being' just being thee Mind, Itself, (or otherwise known as God, in the invisible sense). And,

Physicality, itself, is just God, in the visible sense.

The Creator of ALL things is done by this God, from the invisible with the visible. Just like how 'you', the invisible 'being' creates ALL human created 'things' through the visible human body.

seeds wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:01 pm It's no secret around here that I believe in and promote a "Berkeleyan-ish" interpretation of reality which suggests that the universe is the "mind" of a higher consciousness,...

There is Consciousness, which is just a 'Being' AWARE of ALL 'things', and, there is 'consciousness', which is just a human 'being' just AWARE of some 'things'.

As the word 'consciousness' just refers to 'awareness', itself, there is NO higher form of 'consciousness'. There is just 'Consciousness', Itself, or 'consciousness', itself. And, one can NOT be both.

While one is only aware of some 'things', then that one 'being' is just 'consciousness', itself. But while one is AWARE of ALL 'things', then that is thee One 'Being' that is within EVERY thing and is just 'Consciousness', Itself.

seeds wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:01 pm

...and that at the moment of death, our own minds will be "born out" of it,

WHY do 'you', people, talk about 'things', like, "your own minds", but when 'I' question 'you' for CLARIFICATION absolutely NONE is given?

So, I will TRY AGAIN;

Who and/or what does the 'our' word here refer to, EXACTLY? Then,

Because the 'our' word is a 'possessive noun' in relation to the following "own minds" words, how does that who or what OWN those 'minds'? And,

What are 'minds', themselves, EXACTLY?

seeds wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:01 pm
and thus awaken into a higher context of reality where our true and eternal form will finally be revealed to us....

Who AND What, EXACTLY, is 'your' 'true and eternal form' has ALREADY been 'finally' REVEALED. Well, at the time of this writing, to some of 'you' anyway,

Oh, and by the way, there is ONLY One 'Reality', so there are NOT "higher contexts of reality". Although 'you', human beings, individually do have 'lower' or 'higher' concepts of 'things', including 'Reality', Itself, in relation to being closer to thee One and ONLY ACTUAL Truth of 'things', or 'Reality', Itself.

And, one is NOT 'awakened more' NOR 'born into' ANY 'thing' 'higher' NOR 'lesser' at death.

seeds wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:01 pm

With that being understood, allow me to present a slightly paraphrased excerpt from a book that I self-published back in 2008 that pertains to the topic of your thread....

When you say, "With 'that' being understood", what does the 'that' word refer to, EXACTLY?

seeds wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:01 pm

The notion of time travel into the past is based solely upon the fact that the physicists (materialists) believe that nothing exists above and beyond physical matter; that matter itself is the alpha and omega of the "all that is," and that life is merely a fortuitous by-product of the "accidental" arrangement of matter.

Following from that, it is loosely believed (at least in the "Block Universe" theory) that the quantum realm still contains all of the informational parameters that underpinned the construction of objective reality at any given point in time, stretching all the way back to the beginning.

What is this actual 'beginning', which 'you', human beings, in the days when this is being written, continually go on and on about?

seeds wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:01 pm In which case, if one could just locate and interpolate oneself within those parameters (into that "field of information"), one could re-experience the same conditions that the parameters represented.

ALREADY DONE.

seeds wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:01 pm And that would also include the experiencing of the presence of the actual minds of the humans who inhabited the bodies of any bygone era.

There are NO "actual minds" (with an 's') that inhabited ANY 'thing'.

There is, however, One Mind that inhabits EVERY 'thing'.

Learning how to LOOK AT and SEE 'things' from the perspective of this One and ONLY Mind, then thee ACTUAL Truth of ALL 'things' can be SEEN, becomes CRYSTAL CLEAR, and is ALSO KNOWN.

seeds wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:01 pm Keep in mind that in pure materialism, the lives of humans (or any other lifeform, for that matter) only exist because of the arrangement of matter itself.

There is OBVIOUSLY NOT just 'matter' ONLY. So, talking about 'things' as though there is ONLY 'matter' is just NONSENSE.

seeds wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:01 pm So the mind of any human would merely be another informationally-based parameter in the waving quantum underpinning of the universe - like the color of your hair or eyes - for example, and would be inextricably linked to the physical matter that gave rise to the mind's existence.

But is 'Mind' even physical?

If yes, then WHERE is the ACTUAL PROOF.

And, are these 'mind' 'things', which you speak of, even physical?

If yes, then WHERE is the ACTUAL PROOF?

seeds wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:01 pm And the point is that if one could simply re-experience the "matter waves" of the past, one would also experience the presence of the living mind within those waves (as it actually was) at the point of interpolation of the time traveler.

WHY do 'you', adult human beings, in the days when this is being written, COMPLICATE and MAKE HARD what is essentially PURELY SIMPLE and EASY?

seeds wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:01 pm And therein lies the paradox that if you killed your great, great, grandfather when he was a child in that context, how would that affect the future status of his (non) progeny, which includes you, the time traveler?

However, the ultimate point I am leading to is that the materialists are dead wrong in their belief in the primacy of matter.

OF COURSE THEY ARE.

One VERY SIMPLE sound AND valid 'argument' could put this 'matter' to rest ONCE and for ALL.

If there is ONLY matter, then 'it' would HAVE TO be infinitely COMPRESSED, and infinite in SIZE ALSO, meaning that there could ONLY be ONE piece of 'matter'. Which there OBVIOUSLY is NOT.

So, there is OBVIOUSLY MORE than just matter.

And, what that MORE is, EXACTLY, ALSO OBVIOUS.

seeds wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:01 pm Mind is not a by-product of matter. No, matter - as seen in the arrangement of the phenomenal features of the universe - is a by-product of mind (as in the mind of the higher consciousness to whom the universe belongs)....

How do 'you' DIFFERENTIATE between "your" OWN so-called 'mind' and the 'mind' that, supposedly, somehow CREATED EVERY 'thing'?

Also, WHY do you think or BELIEVE that the Universe, Itself, belongs to ANY 'thing'?

AND, how would you explain A 'mind' created EVERY physical 'thing', and from 'what', EXACTLY?

seeds wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:01 pm


Now, if for whatever reason (blurriness of the print, print too small, nut-jobery of my assertions) you skipped trying to read the dialogue in the illustrations, all I am suggesting is that whatever an alleged time traveler might experience if he (or she) could indeed somehow access the quantum information that underpinned the events of the past,...

...it would not contain the actual souls that existed back then,...

(no more than the information encoded on a DVD movie disc contains the actual actors)

...and that's because all past souls who have lived and died on earth exist in a higher context of reality and cannot be touched or affected by anything that anyone does within the material parameters of this lower context of reality.
_______

Okay.