Philosophy Now Forum

Given the current trend of evolution, Can Non-humans Evolve with Human-liked Consciousness in whatever time it takes.

From evolution, humans has the highest degree of self-awareness thus giving humans their specific human consciousness.

My question is,
given the evident trend in the evolution of consciousness from less complex animals to the higher animals e.g. primates, elephants, dolphins, etc. are capable of self-awareness in some degrees,
will non-humans be able to achieve human liked self-awareness and self-consciousness in time regardless of when [100,000 or >1 million years].

Note animals that has passed the mirror-test as an indication of having some degree of self-awareness are listed here;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_te ... ave_passed

My view is, given the current trend of evolution, will one or some of the above listed animals eventually acquire higher-human-liked* self awareness in time.

* note even at present, orang utans and other higher primates already have self-awareness equivalent to that of a small child.
So it is possible future they will evolve with self-awareness of teens then adults.
Note I state it is potentially-possible and not certainly-possible.

All consciousness is self-conscious. Other species are already human-like to the extent that we have environments, perception and experience in common. Beyond that, nobody else will ever be human-like, because they are not human. Their history and experience and perception of the world is different from humans. Nothing evolves into a species that already exists. Evolution simply continues along the path of survival, from where it is now to where environmental conditions make continued survival possible.

Skip wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:35 am All consciousness is self-conscious. Other species are already human-like to the extent that we have environments, perception and experience in common. Beyond that, nobody else will ever be human-like, because they are not human. Their history and experience and perception of the world is different from humans. Nothing evolves into a species that already exists. Evolution simply continues along the path of survival, from where it is now to where environmental conditions make continued survival possible.

Note "human-liked" does not mean exactly-like-human but merely share certain relevant common features on the subject matter.

Example, those listed as passing the 'mirror tests' behave like the humans do in a mirror test but their physical bodies are all different and certain of their mental faculties will be different.
In this case it is not expected the primates who possessed human-like self-awareness will be 99% exactly like humans in all their other mental faculties.

Note all consciousness are self-consciousness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-consciousness
Note dream consciousness, drunk consciousness, coma consciousness, sleep consciousness, and other consciousness are not self-consciousness.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 8:06 am Note "human-liked" does not mean exactly-like-human but merely share certain relevant common features on the subject matter.

That's already happened a thousand times. Depending on what features you consider 'relevant', most species on this planet, including humans, have some traits that are alike; all mammals and birds have many similarities.

Example, those listed as passing the 'mirror tests' behave like the humans do in a mirror test but their physical bodies are all different and certain of their mental faculties will be different.
In this case it is not expected the primates who possessed human-like self-awareness will be 99% exactly like humans in all their other mental faculties.

So what? The closest in DNA are the closest in psychology. That's hardly surprising. But all of the other apes have already evolved into other apes. They are what they are; we are what we are. Wherever and however each species evolves will continue to be its own path. Humans will never become baboons and gorillas will never become chimpanzees. (and the silly mirror test has nothing to do with evolution)

Note all consciousness are self-consciousness.

I disagree.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:38 am Given the current trend of evolution, Can Non-humans Evolve with Human-liked Consciousness in whatever time it takes.

Well considering the Fact that humans have evolved, with consciousness, from NON-human animals, then the answer should be fairly OBVIOUS.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:38 am From evolution, humans has the highest degree of self-awareness thus giving humans their specific human consciousness.

Here is a GREAT EXAMPLE of WHY these human beings, in the days when this was being written, STILL could NOT SEE what thee ACTUAL Truth of things IS, YET.

When 'you', human beings, evolve ENOUGH to START speaking thee ACTUAL Truth ONLY, then 'you' WILL also START SEEING what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, EXACTLY.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:38 am My question is,
given the evident trend in the evolution of consciousness from less complex animals to the higher animals e.g. primates, elephants, dolphins, etc. are capable of self-awareness in some degrees,
will non-humans be able to achieve human liked self-awareness and self-consciousness in time regardless of when [100,000 or >1 million years].

But, until 'you', human beings, can answer the question, 'Who am 'I'?', properly and correctly, you are NOT 'self-aware'.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:38 am Note animals that has passed the mirror-test as an indication of having some degree of self-awareness are listed here;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_te ... ave_passed

Also, note that this ability to recognize a reflection is about as far 'you', human beings, in the days when this was written, got in being 'self-aware'. Which is REALLY NOTHING compared to what 'you' are about to learn and UNCOVER.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:38 am My view is, given the current trend of evolution, will one or some of the above listed animals eventually acquire higher-human-liked* self awareness in time.

How about 'you' explain to the readers just how far 'you' ACTUALLY got in the 'self-awareness', when this was being written.

Are 'you' yet aware of who and what 'you' are EXACTLY?

Do you even KNOW the answer to the question, 'Who am 'I'?', EXACTLY?

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:38 am * note even at present, orang utans and other higher primates already have self-awareness equivalent to that of a small child.

And what is the ACTUAL difference between a so-called "small child" and a "big adult" in relation to 'self-awareness', at present, when this is being written?

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:38 am So it is possible future they will evolve with self-awareness of teens then adults.
Note I state it is potentially-possible and not certainly-possible.

Note that you WILL, without doubt, NOT provide ANY CLARIFICATION to what the DIFFERENCE is between "small child", "medium teen", and "large adult" in relation to ACTUAL self-awareness.

Nor will you provide ANY hint that 'you', "veritas aequitas", are even AWARE of who, or what, the 'self' IS, EXACTLY? And, this is because 'you' STILL had a VERY LONG WAY to go.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 8:06 am Note "human-liked" does not mean exactly-like-human but merely share certain relevant common features on the subject matter.

Actually, Veritas, "human-liked" consciousness means consciousness that humans like (as in prefer, or enjoy, or feel attracted to, etc.).

I think the term you meant to use is "human-like" (as in you need to drop the "d").

And, yes, non-humans (even if they exist on other planets throughout the universe) can evolve to have "human-like" consciousness.

And that's because (speculatively speaking) the manifestation of beings with "human-like" consciousness...

(i.e., human-like "souls" that are allegedly capable of surviving the death of the material body)

...is one of the primary goals and purposes for the creation of the universe in the first place, for it (the universe) represents the physiological ("womb-like") means by which the greater "SOUL" of the universe (GOD) replicates itself by conceiving its "offspring" within itself.

It is a replication that is successfully completed...

(again, anywhere throughout the entire universe)

...once an entity reaches at least the "human-like" level of consciousness.

(And, please, spare me the mentioning of your "existential crisis" nonsense.)
_______

seeds wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 6:14 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 8:06 am Note "human-liked" does not mean exactly-like-human but merely share certain relevant common features on the subject matter.

Actually, Veritas, "human-liked" consciousness means consciousness that humans like (as in prefer, or enjoy, or feel attracted to, etc.).

I think the term you meant to use is "human-like" (as in you need to drop the "d").

And, yes, non-humans (even if they exist on other planets throughout the universe) can evolve to have "human-like" consciousness.

And that's because (speculatively speaking) the manifestation of beings with "human-like" consciousness...

(i.e., human-like "souls" that are allegedly capable of surviving the death of the material body)

...is one of the primary goals and purposes for the creation of the universe in the first place, for it (the universe) represents the physiological ("womb-like") means by which the greater "SOUL" of the universe (GOD) replicates itself by conceiving its "offspring" within itself.

It is a replication that is successfully completed...

(again, anywhere throughout the entire universe)

...once an entity reaches at least the "human-like" level of consciousness.

(And, please, spare me the mentioning of your "existential crisis" nonsense.)
_______

• Human-like:
  suggesting human characteristics for animals or inanimate things. synonyms: anthropomorphic, anthropomorphous human, having human form or attributes as opposed to those of animals or divine beings.

The human-like characteristics must be empirically [& philosophically] verifiable and justifiable.

The idea of human-like "souls" is illusory and delusion because it is not empirically & philosophically verifiable and justifiable.

What is wrong with the concept of an "existential crisis" which is empirically verifiable and justifiable? It is this existential crisis that is driving you to be delusional in jumping into conclusion that an independent soul that survives physical death exists.