Philosophy Now Forum

If Jesus and Father are one then why does He claim that what He said is the words of Father and not Himself?

Btw, God is impossible to be real.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24704
Thus the OP is moot and a non-starter for me.

But for Christians who believe God is real, their logic of the Trinity is as follows'

Analogically,
Is an 'ice-sheet' [an EMERGENT] merely a piece of ice or also is the OCEAN?
The iceberg [H2O] is part and parcel of the OCEAN of H2O.
In this case, that particular piece of ice cannot emerge without the whole OCEAN.
If the temperature increase the iceberg disappears.
When the temperature decreases significantly, the ice-sheet is form.

In the vein of the above analogy,
Jesus is an EMERGENT of God which is part and parcel of God,
thus in that perspective Jesus is a prophet and as the same time God but not fully God.
In this sense, Jesus as prophet is not independent of God but part and parcel of God.

Those who cannot understand the interrelationship and part-&-parcelness of Jesus and God are trapped in the dogmatism of duality and Physical Realism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_realism
on this point.

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:46 am If Jesus and Father are one then why does He claim that what He said is the words of Father and not Himself?

Jesus claimed to be God. If he wasn't God then he was just an insane human. If he was God, then he/God is some kind of insane God by human standards (or else we humans are all insane for not understanding the Trinity or ultimate reality). Either way, God is annoying to me. Sorry, God. If you exist, I'm just telling you the way things are from my vantage point.

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:46 am If Jesus and Father are one then why does He claim that what He said is the words of Father and not Himself?

Who does the word "He" here refer to, EXACTLY, and WHY have you capitalized this "He" here?

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:00 am Btw, God is impossible to be real.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24704
Thus the OP is moot and a non-starter for me.

Yet here you are responding to the opening post.

Also, until you provide ACTUAL PROOF, empirically OR logically, that God, Itself, is an impossibility to be real WHY do you provide these links? They OBVIOUSLY do NOT prove ANY thing.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:00 am But for Christians who believe God is real, their logic of the Trinity is as follows'

Analogically,
Is an 'ice-sheet' [an EMERGENT] merely a piece of ice or also is the OCEAN?
The iceberg [H2O] is part and parcel of the OCEAN of H2O.
In this case, that particular piece of ice cannot emerge without the whole OCEAN.
If the temperature increase the iceberg disappears.
When the temperature decreases significantly, the ice-sheet is form.

In the vein of the above analogy,
Jesus is an EMERGENT of God which is part and parcel of God,
thus in that perspective Jesus is a prophet and as the same time God but not fully God.
In this sense, Jesus as prophet is not independent of God but part and parcel of God.

Those who cannot understand the interrelationship and part-&-parcelness of Jesus and God are trapped in the dogmatism of duality and Physical Realism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_realism
on this point.

So, is "jesus" a prophet or God, to you?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:35 am

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:46 am If Jesus and Father are one then why does He claim that what He said is the words of Father and not Himself?

Jesus claimed to be God. If he wasn't God then he was just an insane human. If he was God, then he/God is some kind of insane God by human standards (or else we humans are all insane for not understanding the Trinity or ultimate reality).

Now we are getting somewhere.

Were 'you', human beings, under some illusion that 'you' were meant to evolve, or come, into Existence FULLY sane and/or KNOWING ALL, at the first moment?

Surely it is ALREADY WELL understood that understanding, itself, is just a process, of which 'you', human beings, are in?

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:00 am Either way, God is annoying to me.

So, a 'Thing' that you have already admitted may not even exist anyway is 'annoying' to you. Would you like to elaborate on how this could even be a POSSIBLIITY, let alone an ACTUALITY.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:00 am Sorry, God. If you exist, I'm just telling you the way things are from my vantage point.

PLEASE tell us MORE.

Oh, and by the way, 'you' do NOT have to be sorry for ANY thing you do. WHY you do ALL of them is ALREADY FULLY UNDERSTOOD, and KNOWN.

Age wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:38 am Would you like to elaborate on how this could even be a POSSIBLIITY, let alone an ACTUALITY.

Not really. Sorry.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:07 am

Age wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:38 am Would you like to elaborate on how this could even be a POSSIBLIITY, let alone an ACTUALITY.

Not really. Sorry.

Is that because you are UNABLE TO or just because you do NOT want to be understood here?

Age wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 10:37 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:07 am

Age wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:38 am Would you like to elaborate on how this could even be a POSSIBLIITY, let alone an ACTUALITY.

Not really. Sorry.

Is that because you are UNABLE TO or just because you do NOT want to be understood here?

Neither. Because I want to be understood and I don't think you will understand so I'm not going to waste time explaining it. I'm tired of explaining myself to people who don't care anyway. I know my troubles. God knows my troubles (if there is a God). No one else will ever understand it. So what's the point of explaining anything to anyone here? I think none at all.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 4:13 am

Age wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 10:37 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:07 am

Not really. Sorry.

Is that because you are UNABLE TO or just because you do NOT want to be understood here?

Neither. Because I want to be understood and I don't think you will understand so I'm not going to waste time explaining it.

So, you make the CLAIM: God is annoying to you. And, you, supposedly, want to be understood but when asked, Would you like to elaborate on how this could even be a POSSIBLITY, let alone an ACTUALITY, you then make the EXCUSE, "Not really", based SOLELY on some ASSUMPTION, which could be ABSOLUTELY False, Wrong, AND Incorrect.

Do you regularly base what you do on ASSUMPTIONS, which could be completely and utterly False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect?

Also, WHY spend time coming to a philosophy forum, writing down your views, on some proposition that "you want to be understood" but then, when asked, will you elaborate you make the EXCUSE that "you are not going to waste your time"?

WHY "waste the time", in the first place, writing down things, which NO one "else" could understand, besides 'you'? Especially when you are NOT going to elaborate ANYWAY?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 4:13 am I'm tired of explaining myself to people who don't care anyway.

HERE is ANOTHER ASSUMPTION. Now, what are you basing this ASSUMPTION ON, EXACTLY, this time?

If I really did NOT care, then would I so-call 'waste my time' asking you if you would like to elaborate on the CLAIM that you just made?

If you would like to KNOW thee Truth, then I ONLY ask CLARIFYING questions because I REALLY do WANT to KNOW thee Truthful answer.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 4:13 am I know my troubles. God knows my troubles (if there is a God).

Will you EXPLAIN how, EXACTLY, you KNOW that if there is a God, then God knows your so-called 'troubles'?

Thee True AND Right answer, by the way, is, literally, VERY ENLIGHTENING, and UPLIFTING.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 4:13 am No one else will ever understand it.

This is CERTAINLY VERY True if you NEVER even start sharing.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 4:13 am So what's the point of explaining anything to anyone here? I think none at all.

So, WHY, EXACTLY, did you come here?

Also, and just for your information, and for later referral, every sentence you said here sounds very much like the ones stated in later childhood.

Age, I'm not going to waste time explaining anything to you. I'd rather not cast my pearls out there to be trampled on with muddy feet.