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If every capitalism needs central government, does this prove that every capitalism is socialism?
Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:39 pm
by trokanmariel
If every capitalism needs central government, does this prove that every capitalism is socialism?
Re: If every capitalism needs central government, does this prove that every capitalism is socialism?
Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:44 pm
by promethean75
Sorta. It proves that no capitalism can work without a nanny state to come to its aid when it goes full retard.
The ace in capitalism's pocket is that because it is responsible for providing employment to the vast majority of citizens, the government is obligated through attrition to support and defend it in the event that it fails.... or... provide an employment alternative to prevent the chaos that would resume if it did fail.
Now here's the ultimate irony of the situation. Between the government and the capitalist class, is the proletariat... upon who's back both entities exist. So you essentially have two monolithic parasites living off the labor power of the working class... a class which not only doesn't need the capitalist class to function, but is also quite able to form and conduct any governing necessary to organize society.
It's a double whammy, bro. The working class is getting fucked in the front and the rear at the same time.
Re: If every capitalism needs central government, does this prove that every capitalism is socialism?
Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:19 pm
by trokanmariel
promethean75 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:44 pm
Sorta. It proves that no capitalism can work without a nanny state to come to its aid when it goes full retard.
The ace in capitalism's pocket is that because it is responsible for providing employment to the vast majority of citizens, the government is obligated through attrition to support and defend it in the event that it fails.... or... provide an employment alternative to prevent the chaos that would resume if it did fail.
Now here's the ultimate irony of the situation. Between the government and the capitalist class, is the proletariat... upon who's back both entities exist. So you essentially have two monolithic parasites living off the labor power of the working class... a class which not only doesn't need the capitalist class to function, but is also quite able to form and conduct any governing necessary to organize society.
It's a double whammy, bro. The working class is getting fucked in the front and the rear at the same time.
Thanks for the reply.
I did however notice a contradiction, with your assessment of the reality. You say "to prevent the chaos that would resume if it did fail.", but then say that the working class is "quite able to form and conduct any governing necessary to organise society."
When you say chaos, what are you referring to?
Re: If every capitalism needs central government, does this prove that every capitalism is socialism?
Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:38 pm
by Immanuel Can
trokanmariel wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:39 pm
If every capitalism needs central government, does this prove that every capitalism is socialism?
A monarchy requires a central government. So does a dictatorship. So does a classical liberal democracy. So does a tribal group.
That's a nonsense question: all human social arrangments create something "central" to "govern." Only complete anarchy is an exeption, and that's because it isn't a social
arrangement at all, since no particular order is implied.
So the answer is "No, it implies nothing in particular."
Next question?
Re: If every capitalism needs central government, does this prove that every capitalism is socialism?
Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:28 am
by henry quirk
Capitalism requires no government.
Where one exists: it becomes a means for the parasitical to work their will.
The capitalist, buyin' the favor of the legislator, is no better or worse than the socialist who finagles the same favor by way of threats and instilling guilt thru appeals to virtue.
Government, then, is the poison; the legislator and his authority is the object of desire.
Without government: the worst of us -- capitalist, socialist or other -- is left to satisfy his appetites without a leg up.
Re: If every capitalism needs central government, does this prove that every capitalism is socialism?
Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 7:31 am
by promethean75
That's great Henry but it's not 1794 anymore. Government is here to stay.
Your assignment is to design a government of the people, run by the people, for the people. I'll even break out a map and show it to you; the X marx the spot.
Re: If every capitalism needs central government, does this prove that every capitalism is socialism?
Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:44 am
by henry quirk
Government is here to stay.
you done gave up without even tryin': admitted defeat before takin' to the battlefield
you reject the old boss and welcome the new boss (same guy, different clothes)
as you like