Philosophy Now Forum

The question is why this universe rather than any other universe? This means that our universe is only one possibility among many other possible universes. This means that our universe could exist not. Therefore, our universe is contingent.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:45 pm The question is why this universe rather than any other universe?

I have already informed you that the answer is that when 'you', human beings, come to understand WHAT thee Universe is fundamentally made up of and HOW thee Universe actually works, then there can only EVER be this One and ONLY Universe.

"other universes" is NOT even a possibility, let alone an actuality.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:45 pm This means that our universe is only one possibility among many other possible universes.

LOL This is only what you ASSUME is possible. And, you only ASSUME this because, as I have ALREADY STATED and SHOWN, you have NOT YET uncovered the secrets of the Universe, Itself.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:45 pm This means that our universe could exist not. Therefore, our universe is contingent.

In 'what' definition of 'contingent' are you using here, EXACTLY?

Also, your so-called "argument" here is TOTALLY FLAWED as well.

Just because a human being asks a question, then that in itself does NOT mean whatever you want it to mean, like as in the example above here. Just because you ask the question, "Why this universe rather than other universes?", does NOT mean that this universe is only one possibility among many other possible universes AT ALL.

To ASSUME or BELIEVE that they logically follow is ABSURDITY to the highest degree.

And, to follow this up with your two conclusions here just adds MORE ILLOGICALITY to this.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:45 pm The question is why this universe rather than any other universe? This means that our universe is only one possibility among many other possible universes. This means that our universe could exist not. Therefore, our universe is contingent.

It is your ideology of Philosophical Realism where you assumed there must be a mind-independent universe out there.
So the moment you invoke 'this universe' it become something contingent against the absolute universe.
So the problem is a matter of your assumption that there must be some pre-existing universe that is independent of the human conditions. This pre-existing universe is based on the bottom-up approach.

However, if you take the top-down approach as relied upon human observations and inferences, then there is only the inferred universe which is contingent.
What is needed is to ensure this empirical inference is as credible as possible, that is why we have to rely on a credible Framework and System of Knowledge [FSK] of which the scientific FSK is the most credible.

But being human, as with the majority of humans which are programmed by default with Philosophical Realism, you cannot just accept any inferred conclusions. This is a psychological issue that lead to other major problems for humanity, e.g. extending to theism and manifesting all the evils from theistic beliefs.

I believe it is most optimal to cognize the only universe and reality we have is a contingent one, i.e. contingent to human conditions and there is no other nor absolute reality out there. This is the most realistic we humans can access to.

Thus the majority must recognize they have a psychological issue re insisting upon an absolutely absolute independent reality and they need to resolve this psychological issue within themselves.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:41 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:45 pm The question is why this universe rather than any other universe? This means that our universe is only one possibility among many other possible universes. This means that our universe could exist not. Therefore, our universe is contingent.

It is your ideology of Philosophical Realism where you assumed there must be a mind-independent universe out there.

And, until you explain to the readers here what this 'mind' thing is, EXACTLY, which you constantly talk about and refer to, then your CLAIM that there could NEVER exist a Universe without this mind thingy is just NONSENSICAL.

Please, explain to the readers WHAT this 'mind' thing IS, EXACTLY, and HOW would it operate, EXACTLY? Also, HOW and WHEN did 'it' come into Existence.

Your FAILURE to explain ANY of this SAYS and SHOWS a LOT about your True INABILITIES here.

In case you are STILL UNAWARE, most of your fellow adult human beings, in the days when this was written anyway, ASSUMED and/or BELIEVED that this 'mind' thing, which you ALL go on about, was in relation to 'you', human beings, directly. And, OBVIOUSLY, 'you', human beings, came into existence AFTER the Universe was ALREADY EXISTING. Which, therefore means, there is OBVIOUSLY a 'mind-independent' Universe, "out there", as you say.

Now, you are absolutely FREE to ASSUME that there is ONLY a 'mind-created' universe, for as long as you like. But, do you have ANY actual evidence or proof for this CLAIM of yours here?

If yes, then will you PROVIDE it, for us?

If no, then WHY NOT?

Also, are you able to explain HOW the so-called 'human-mind' could create the Universe, that existed BEFORE 'you', human beings, even came into existence?

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:41 am So the moment you invoke 'this universe' it become something contingent against the absolute universe.

What is the difference between 'this universe' and 'the absolute universe'? And, how many 'universes' are there in your view?

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:41 am So the problem is a matter of your assumption that there must be some pre-existing universe that is independent of the human conditions.

Although that is NOT 'a problem' AT ALL, in and of itself, the issue you now have is explaining HOW there could NOT be a pre-existing Universe before 'you', human beings, came into Existence, Itself?

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:41 am This pre-existing universe is based on the bottom-up approach.

The ACTUAL pre-human being-existing is based on sound and valid logic and Fact.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:41 am However, if you take the top-down approach as relied upon human observations and inferences, then there is only the inferred universe which is contingent.
What is needed is to ensure this empirical inference is as credible as possible, that is why we have to rely on a credible Framework and System of Knowledge [FSK] of which the scientific FSK is the most credible.

Well, how come, you ONLY rely on your OWN ASSUMPTIONS and BELIEFS, ONLY, and do NOT rely on 'that' what is ACTUALLY True and REAL?

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:41 am But being human, as with the majority of humans which are programmed by default with Philosophical Realism, you cannot just accept any inferred conclusions. This is a psychological issue that lead to other major problems for humanity, e.g. extending to theism and manifesting all the evils from theistic beliefs.

And, LOL "veritas aequitas". You are SO BLINDED by your OWN BELIEFS you make up your OWN STORY, in the hope that your OWN BELIEFS would sound some like real and true. However, you FAIL COMPLETELY.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:41 am I believe it is most optimal to cognize the only universe and reality we have is a contingent one, i.e. contingent to human conditions and there is no other nor absolute reality out there. This is the most realistic we humans can access to.

So, what can be CLEARLY SEEN here is that this one ACTUALLY BELIEVES that thee One and ONLY Universe relies SOLELY on 'you', human beings, existing. And, without 'you', there is NO Universe AT ALL.

Which is a GREAT EXAMPLE of just how egotistical some of 'you', human beings, REALLY WERE, back in the days when this was being written.

'you', human beings, and, 'you', "veritas aequitas", are NOT that important AT ALL, REALLY. And, NONE of 'you' were CERTAINLY NOT that important that the Universe, Itself, could NOT exist without 'you'.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:41 am Thus the majority must recognize they have a psychological issue re insisting upon an absolutely absolute independent reality and they need to resolve this psychological issue within themselves.

LOL

To "veritas aequitas" EVERY one "else" had the problem AND issue, which NEEDED to be ADDRESSED and FIXED. While "veritas aequitas" had ALL the solutions AND answers. And, if you do NOT believe this is true, then just ask "veritas aequitas" itself.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:41 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:45 pm The question is why this universe rather than any other universe? This means that our universe is only one possibility among many other possible universes. This means that our universe could exist not. Therefore, our universe is contingent.

It is your ideology of Philosophical Realism where you assumed there must be a mind-independent universe out there.
So the moment you invoke 'this universe' it become something contingent against the absolute universe.
So the problem is a matter of your assumption that there must be some pre-existing universe that is independent of the human conditions. This pre-existing universe is based on the bottom-up approach.

However, if you take the top-down approach as relied upon human observations and inferences, then there is only the inferred universe which is contingent.
What is needed is to ensure this empirical inference is as credible as possible, that is why we have to rely on a credible Framework and System of Knowledge [FSK] of which the scientific FSK is the most credible.

But being human, as with the majority of humans which are programmed by default with Philosophical Realism, you cannot just accept any inferred conclusions. This is a psychological issue that lead to other major problems for humanity, e.g. extending to theism and manifesting all the evils from theistic beliefs.

I believe it is most optimal to cognize the only universe and reality we have is a contingent one, i.e. contingent to human conditions and there is no other nor absolute reality out there. This is the most realistic we humans can access to.

Thus the majority must recognize they have a psychological issue re insisting upon an absolutely absolute independent reality and they need to resolve this psychological issue within themselves.

My argument is only about the contingency of the universe. I think the universe is the by-product of mind.

Age wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:01 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:45 pm The question is why this universe rather than any other universe?

I have already informed you that the answer is that when 'you', human beings, come to understand WHAT thee Universe is fundamentally made up of and HOW thee Universe actually works, then there can only EVER be this One and ONLY Universe.

"other universes" is NOT even a possibility, let alone an actuality.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:45 pm This means that our universe is only one possibility among many other possible universes.

LOL This is only what you ASSUME is possible. And, you only ASSUME this because, as I have ALREADY STATED and SHOWN, you have NOT YET uncovered the secrets of the Universe, Itself.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:45 pm This means that our universe could exist not. Therefore, our universe is contingent.

In 'what' definition of 'contingent' are you using here, EXACTLY?

Also, your so-called "argument" here is TOTALLY FLAWED as well.

Just because a human being asks a question, then that in itself does NOT mean whatever you want it to mean, like as in the example above here. Just because you ask the question, "Why this universe rather than other universes?", does NOT mean that this universe is only one possibility among many other possible universes AT ALL.

To ASSUME or BELIEVE that they logically follow is ABSURDITY to the highest degree.

And, to follow this up with your two conclusions here just adds MORE ILLOGICALITY to this.

You don't even know the difference between possible, actual and necessary.

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:03 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:41 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:45 pm The question is why this universe rather than any other universe? This means that our universe is only one possibility among many other possible universes. This means that our universe could exist not. Therefore, our universe is contingent.

It is your ideology of Philosophical Realism where you assumed there must be a mind-independent universe out there.
So the moment you invoke 'this universe' it become something contingent against the absolute universe.
So the problem is a matter of your assumption that there must be some pre-existing universe that is independent of the human conditions. This pre-existing universe is based on the bottom-up approach.

However, if you take the top-down approach as relied upon human observations and inferences, then there is only the inferred universe which is contingent.
What is needed is to ensure this empirical inference is as credible as possible, that is why we have to rely on a credible Framework and System of Knowledge [FSK] of which the scientific FSK is the most credible.

But being human, as with the majority of humans which are programmed by default with Philosophical Realism, you cannot just accept any inferred conclusions. This is a psychological issue that lead to other major problems for humanity, e.g. extending to theism and manifesting all the evils from theistic beliefs.

I believe it is most optimal to cognize the only universe and reality we have is a contingent one, i.e. contingent to human conditions and there is no other nor absolute reality out there. This is the most realistic we humans can access to.

Thus the majority must recognize they have a psychological issue re insisting upon an absolutely absolute independent reality and they need to resolve this psychological issue within themselves.

My argument is only about the contingency of the universe. I think the universe is the by-product of mind.

But you also claim that the 'mind' is owned by 'you', human beings. Which, OBVIOUSLY, is VERY CONTRADICTORY, well to me anyway, considering that 'you', human beings, came into existence AFTER other things were ALREADY existing, and it is those other PRIOR things, together, that is generally known as and referred to as the Universe, Itself. So, how, EXACTLY, could the Universe, Itself, be a so-called "by-product" of some thing that came about AFTER the "by-product" was ALREADY existing?

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:04 pm

Age wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:01 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:45 pm The question is why this universe rather than any other universe?

I have already informed you that the answer is that when 'you', human beings, come to understand WHAT thee Universe is fundamentally made up of and HOW thee Universe actually works, then there can only EVER be this One and ONLY Universe.

"other universes" is NOT even a possibility, let alone an actuality.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:45 pm This means that our universe is only one possibility among many other possible universes.

LOL This is only what you ASSUME is possible. And, you only ASSUME this because, as I have ALREADY STATED and SHOWN, you have NOT YET uncovered the secrets of the Universe, Itself.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:45 pm This means that our universe could exist not. Therefore, our universe is contingent.

In 'what' definition of 'contingent' are you using here, EXACTLY?

Also, your so-called "argument" here is TOTALLY FLAWED as well.

Just because a human being asks a question, then that in itself does NOT mean whatever you want it to mean, like as in the example above here. Just because you ask the question, "Why this universe rather than other universes?", does NOT mean that this universe is only one possibility among many other possible universes AT ALL.

To ASSUME or BELIEVE that they logically follow is ABSURDITY to the highest degree.

And, to follow this up with your two conclusions here just adds MORE ILLOGICALITY to this.

You don't even know the difference between possible, actual and necessary.

Okay. If this is what you ASSUME and BELIEVE is true, then this HAS TO BE true, to you. But this is of NO real concern in regards to the CLARIFYING QUESTION I posed to you. Which was; In 'what' definition of 'contingent' are you using here, EXACTLY?

See, if you NEVER provide us with the definitions of the 'things' that you talk about, then we, obviously, will NEVER EVEN KNOW the ACTUAL DIFFERENCE between the 'things' that you talk about, from YOUR perspective.

Age wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:34 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:03 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:41 am
It is your ideology of Philosophical Realism where you assumed there must be a mind-independent universe out there.
So the moment you invoke 'this universe' it become something contingent against the absolute universe.
So the problem is a matter of your assumption that there must be some pre-existing universe that is independent of the human conditions. This pre-existing universe is based on the bottom-up approach.

However, if you take the top-down approach as relied upon human observations and inferences, then there is only the inferred universe which is contingent.
What is needed is to ensure this empirical inference is as credible as possible, that is why we have to rely on a credible Framework and System of Knowledge [FSK] of which the scientific FSK is the most credible.

But being human, as with the majority of humans which are programmed by default with Philosophical Realism, you cannot just accept any inferred conclusions. This is a psychological issue that lead to other major problems for humanity, e.g. extending to theism and manifesting all the evils from theistic beliefs.

I believe it is most optimal to cognize the only universe and reality we have is a contingent one, i.e. contingent to human conditions and there is no other nor absolute reality out there. This is the most realistic we humans can access to.

Thus the majority must recognize they have a psychological issue re insisting upon an absolutely absolute independent reality and they need to resolve this psychological issue within themselves.

My argument is only about the contingency of the universe. I think the universe is the by-product of mind.

But you also claim that the 'mind' is owned by 'you', human beings. Which, OBVIOUSLY, is VERY CONTRADICTORY, well to me anyway, considering that 'you', human beings, came into existence AFTER other things were ALREADY existing, and it is those other PRIOR things, together, that is generally known as and referred to as the Universe, Itself. So, how, EXACTLY, could the Universe, Itself, be a so-called "by-product" of some thing that came about AFTER the "by-product" was ALREADY existing?

The universe is the result of mind, natural and supernatural beings.

Age wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:41 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:04 pm

Age wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:01 am

I have already informed you that the answer is that when 'you', human beings, come to understand WHAT thee Universe is fundamentally made up of and HOW thee Universe actually works, then there can only EVER be this One and ONLY Universe.

"other universes" is NOT even a possibility, let alone an actuality.



LOL This is only what you ASSUME is possible. And, you only ASSUME this because, as I have ALREADY STATED and SHOWN, you have NOT YET uncovered the secrets of the Universe, Itself.


In 'what' definition of 'contingent' are you using here, EXACTLY?

Also, your so-called "argument" here is TOTALLY FLAWED as well.

Just because a human being asks a question, then that in itself does NOT mean whatever you want it to mean, like as in the example above here. Just because you ask the question, "Why this universe rather than other universes?", does NOT mean that this universe is only one possibility among many other possible universes AT ALL.

To ASSUME or BELIEVE that they logically follow is ABSURDITY to the highest degree.

And, to follow this up with your two conclusions here just adds MORE ILLOGICALITY to this.

You don't even know the difference between possible, actual and necessary.

Okay. If this is what you ASSUME and BELIEVE is true, then this HAS TO BE true, to you. But this is of NO real concern in regards to the CLARIFYING QUESTION I posed to you. Which was; In 'what' definition of 'contingent' are you using here, EXACTLY?

See, if you NEVER provide us with the definitions of the 'things' that you talk about, then we, obviously, will NEVER EVEN KNOW the ACTUAL DIFFERENCE between the 'things' that you talk about, from YOUR perspective.

A contingent entity is something that it could exist or exist not.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:45 pm The question is why this universe rather than any other universe?

If it were a different universe, there would be no idiots asking such absurd questions.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:13 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:45 pm The question is why this universe rather than any other universe?

If it were a different universe, there would be no idiots asking such absurd questions.

The universe could indeed be different!

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:03 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:41 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:45 pm The question is why this universe rather than any other universe? This means that our universe is only one possibility among many other possible universes. This means that our universe could exist not. Therefore, our universe is contingent.

It is your ideology of Philosophical Realism where you assumed there must be a mind-independent universe out there.
So the moment you invoke 'this universe' it become something contingent against the absolute universe.
So the problem is a matter of your assumption that there must be some pre-existing universe that is independent of the human conditions. This pre-existing universe is based on the bottom-up approach.

However, if you take the top-down approach as relied upon human observations and inferences, then there is only the inferred universe which is contingent.
What is needed is to ensure this empirical inference is as credible as possible, that is why we have to rely on a credible Framework and System of Knowledge [FSK] of which the scientific FSK is the most credible.

But being human, as with the majority of humans which are programmed by default with Philosophical Realism, you cannot just accept any inferred conclusions. This is a psychological issue that lead to other major problems for humanity, e.g. extending to theism and manifesting all the evils from theistic beliefs.

I believe it is most optimal to cognize the only universe and reality we have is a contingent one, i.e. contingent to human conditions and there is no other nor absolute reality out there. This is the most realistic we humans can access to.

Thus the majority must recognize they have a psychological issue re insisting upon an absolutely absolute independent reality and they need to resolve this psychological issue within themselves.

My argument is only about the contingency of the universe. I think the universe is the by-product of mind.

You stated
"This means that our universe could exist not".

What I am saying is, the universe does exist but only in relative [contingent] to the human conditions [human mind and self].

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:15 pm

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:13 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:45 pm The question is why this universe rather than any other universe?

If it were a different universe, there would be no idiots asking such absurd questions.

The universe could indeed be different!

There is only one human-contingent-universe but this is not in any absolute sense.
However there can be many human perspectives to what the universe is, i.e. different universes from different human perspectives.
You can even speculate what the universe to a bat or bacteria could be but ultimately there is only human-contingent-universe.

Note your claim itself, i.e.
"The universe could indeed be different!"
is a human-contingent-claim.
There is no way your [human contingent] claim can be absolutely independent.

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:15 pm

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:13 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:45 pm The question is why this universe rather than any other universe?

If it were a different universe, there would be no idiots asking such absurd questions.

The universe could indeed be different!

It is that kind of baseless superstitious assertion that makes all philosophy useless.

What is, is, and could not possibly be anything else. If it were something else, it would not be at all. The universe is.