Philosophy Now Forum

Eleni Angelou eavesdrops on a conversation between a Believer and a Sceptic.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/146/So_You_Think_There_are_Laws_in_Nature

Philosophy Now wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:06 pm Eleni Angelou eavesdrops on a conversation between a Believer and a Sceptic.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/146/So ... _in_Nature

Nature means the superset of nomic connections, which is related to causation but transcends causation.

As an idealist I claim that Nature is a human construct.

who or what wrote and enforces them?

-Imp

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:25 pm As an idealist I claim that Nature is a human construct.

How so?

In what way did humans have anything to do with the construction of Nature?
_______

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:49 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:25 pm As an idealist I claim that Nature is a human construct.

How so?

In what way did humans have anything to do with the construction of Nature?
_______

Where to start?

Either nature exists independently of men's minds, or nature is an idea constructed by men's minds.
Common sense dictates the latter notion is daft, but think of how we know nothing of the world beyond our mind/brains.

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:50 am

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:49 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:25 pm As an idealist I claim that Nature is a human construct.

How so?

In what way did humans have anything to do with the construction of Nature?
_______

Where to start?

Either nature exists independently of men's minds, or nature is an idea constructed by men's minds.
Common sense dictates the latter notion is daft, but think of how we know nothing of the world beyond our mind/brains.

Belinda, if common sense dictates that one would have to be daft to entertain the notion that Nature is a human construct, then why in the world are you claiming that nature is a human construct?
_______

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:25 pm

Philosophy Now wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:06 pm Eleni Angelou eavesdrops on a conversation between a Believer and a Sceptic.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/146/So ... _in_Nature

Nature means the superset of nomic connections, which is related to causation but transcends causation.

As an idealist I claim that Nature is a human construct.

What do you think that humans are, exactly?

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:40 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:25 pm

Philosophy Now wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:06 pm Eleni Angelou eavesdrops on a conversation between a Believer and a Sceptic.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/146/So ... _in_Nature

Nature means the superset of nomic connections, which is related to causation but transcends causation.

As an idealist I claim that Nature is a human construct.

What do you think that humans are, exactly?

My reply is also for Seeds.
' Humans 'is nomenclature from sciences, which are human constructs. I prefer to say 'men' or 'individuals' or 'consciously-aware entities, and as such you and I are bundles of experiences no more and no less. Others look upon us as personas. When we introspect we recognise a turning of our awarenesses towards a good that transcends our personas.

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:16 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:40 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:25 pm
Nature means the superset of nomic connections, which is related to causation but transcends causation.

As an idealist I claim that Nature is a human construct.

What do you think that humans are, exactly?

My reply is also for Seeds.
' Humans 'is nomenclature from sciences, which are human constructs. I prefer to say 'men' or 'individuals' or 'consciously-aware entities, and as such you and I are bundles of experiences no more and no less. Others look upon us as personas. When we introspect we recognise a turning of our awarenesses towards a good that transcends our personas.

You're avoiding the question, Belinda.

When one thinks of "Nature," one thinks of the totality of the intricate workings of the hundred-billion+ galaxies of the universe.

So again I ask you, how can the trillions upon trillions of suns and planets spread throughout the vast reality of this universe,...

(phenomena that allegedly existed for billions of years before humans even arrived on the scene)

...be a "human construct"?
_______

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:16 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:40 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:25 pm
Nature means the superset of nomic connections, which is related to causation but transcends causation.

As an idealist I claim that Nature is a human construct.

What do you think that humans are, exactly?

My reply is also for Seeds.
' Humans 'is nomenclature from sciences, which are human constructs. I prefer to say 'men' or 'individuals' or 'consciously-aware entities, and as such you and I are bundles of experiences no more and no less. Others look upon us as personas. When we introspect we recognise a turning of our awarenesses towards a good that transcends our personas.

Okay, but what sort of entity? And just what are experiences ontologically in your view? And would it be that whatever sort of entity(ies) we're talking about and whatever experiences turn out to be, exactly, isn't something that's part of (or the whole of) nature?

seeds wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:15 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:50 am

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:49 pm
How so?

In what way did humans have anything to do with the construction of Nature?
_______

Where to start?

Either nature exists independently of men's minds, or nature is an idea constructed by men's minds.
Common sense dictates the latter notion is daft, but think of how we know nothing of the world beyond our mind/brains.

Belinda, if common sense dictates that one would have to be daft to entertain the notion that Nature is a human construct, then why in the world are you claiming that nature is a human construct?
_______

Maybe that wondrous orderly system we call"Nature" is a construct in the mind of God.

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:42 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:16 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:40 pm

What do you think that humans are, exactly?

My reply is also for Seeds.
' Humans 'is nomenclature from sciences, which are human constructs. I prefer to say 'men' or 'individuals' or 'consciously-aware entities, and as such you and I are bundles of experiences no more and no less. Others look upon us as personas. When we introspect we recognise a turning of our awarenesses towards a good that transcends our personas.

Okay, but what sort of entity? And just what are experiences ontologically in your view? And would it be that whatever sort of entity(ies) we're talking about and whatever experiences turn out to be, exactly, isn't something that's part of (or the whole of) nature?

What you or I are is 'shaped' by what you or I are not. If there were nothing that I am not I would not exist as an entity.
"Experiences " include thoughts, dreams, emotional and reflexive reactions, consciously-aware affects , bare sensory data (qualia), 'spiritual' attitudes, intuitive muscle memories such as walking or riding a bicycle, reveries, focused thinking, learned and inherited behaviours and so forth. Ontologically, experiences of relations is all there is , in the relative world that you and I inhabit.

Experiences and relationships are the whole of nature, including artefacts. Obviously an internal combustion engine, or a computer , experience only on and off plus physical forces of which they are not conscious. Many natural bundles -of -experiences can learn and experience affects, including those with no central nervous systems.

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:25 pm

Philosophy Now wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:06 pm Eleni Angelou eavesdrops on a conversation between a Believer and a Sceptic.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/146/So ... _in_Nature

Nature means the superset of nomic connections, which is related to causation but transcends causation.

As an idealist I claim that Nature is a human construct.

Apart from our usual mumbo jumbo in the philosopher’s world, does this have an impact on how you act in accordance to(bad English but I hope you understand) the stuff here on this planet, not made by humans?

Ansiktsburk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:55 am

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:25 pm

Philosophy Now wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:06 pm Eleni Angelou eavesdrops on a conversation between a Believer and a Sceptic.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/146/So ... _in_Nature

Nature means the superset of nomic connections, which is related to causation but transcends causation.

As an idealist I claim that Nature is a human construct.

Apart from our usual mumbo jumbo in the philosopher’s world, does this have an impact on how you act in accordance to(bad English but I hope you understand) the stuff here on this planet, not made by humans?

The ethical implication of absolute idealism is that all experiences are necessary experiences including those we call evil.

What saves that claim from the implication that there is no difference between good and evil is that good is the baseline of being. And that's the same as the claim that being is better than non-being: and that something happening is better than nothing.

Even in mundane matters such as the money economy, honesty (a subsection of good) is the baseline without which mutual trust could not work.And generally there is the practical implication of absolute idealism that there has to be some cooperation between men, and between species, for the biosphere to continue in existence.

Panpsychism is a belief that strengthens my practical resolve to respect all that exist especially the sentient.

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:16 pm ... you and I are bundles of experiences no more and no less.

Well, speak for yourself.

So when you get dressed in the morning. that's just experience putting clothes on an experience. Exactly what does an, "experience," wear--or do experiences go naked?

You may find it difficult to believe, but everyone I know is an actual physical being that has experience as one of its many attributes, including experiencing it's own awareness of himself, which he must do to get dressed in the morning. Conscious experience is hardly the only attribute of a human being.