Philosophy Now Forum

Posted: **Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:38 pm**

Perhaps one of you fine gentleman [and if there are any ladies in the gallery] can explain the following...

One might assume that an adult should understand the plethora of benefits accruing to those who maintain a clean personal environment [and I am not talking about OCD-clean]. Just basic cleanliness [self and surrounding stuff].

If people do understand how this practice has greatly improved the quality of human life over the past couple of centuries, why do the vast majority of people hate to clean? Have you seen most people's homes/vehicles? Would it not make sense that performing such simple tasks that lead to so many benefits should be embraced? Are people that f****** lazy?

If they are not motivated enough to put forth the effort to be clean, what can one expect from the society full of these folks?

Posted: **Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:06 pm**

Sanford and son

-Imp

Posted: **Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:14 am**

simplicity wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:38 pmWould it not make sense that performing such simple tasks that lead to so many benefits should be embraced?

Depends on what those benefits are.
If a benefit is that it keeps a woman from bitching, then absolutely.
Break out the cleaning products.
Then there's a high benefit/effort ratio, and that makes cleaning the gift that just keeps on giving.

Posted: **Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:38 am**

Note the Principles of the Normal Distribution or Bell Curve

which is applicable to most human variables which I supposed will include "cleanliness" and "hygiene" which is critical for survival [threat of bacteria, viruses, poisons, and other dangers].

Noting the natural patterns of the Normal Distribution, the question is 'cleanliness' related to what and the criticalness of the need for cleanliness.

I believe all humans are "programmed" to be clean in relation the dirtiness that are immediately related to survival, e.g. clean of 'shit' humans or animals because they contain dangerous germs, viruses and other contaminants.
In this case, re the Normal Distribution, it is likely up to 3 sigma of humans or >97% or even 99% of humans will naturally try to be clean re whatever the shit.

Besides "shit" of all kinds which are the obvious that will drive cleanliness naturally within 97% of people, there will a range of other matters that will be of lesser threats to humans thus less stronger drive to be clean from those dirtiness.

Where cleanliness is not driven by instincts which are likely to be practiced by less than 50% or much lower of the population, then force, laws, counselling, education or whatever is effective will be needed to be carried out to increase the %s.

Thus for the topic of cleanliness, we need note the following;
1. Principles of Normal Distribution re human nature
2. List the expected cleanliness and its corresponding dirtiness
3. It is instinctual or not
4. Degree of criticalness to survival or whatever the resultant expected
5. The conditions, location and context the required cleanliness is related to
6. Apply the most effective strategies to optimize results

Note the Japanese methodology for cleanliness [7s] which can be applicable to individuals.
https://www.slideshare.net/BeenaEdward/7s-73144515
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5S_(methodology)

Posted: **Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:40 am**

There's only two jobs for humans to do here on earth.

1: IS to Make a mess.

2: IS to Clean up the mess.

That's all folks.

If humans prefer instant gratification over and above ever having to do a bit of grafting. Then the lazy fuckers should just use one simple ounce of intelligence that may or may not be lurking somewhere in their brain. Stop fucking breeding. It takes no effort at all to just say I'm having NON....of it.

Just do it, say Non. It's so easy.

.

Posted: **Fri Aug 13, 2021 2:43 pm**

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:06 pm Sanford and son

-Imp

Come to think of it, junk men have to be pretty organized to track inventory.

Staggering backwards, grabbing the heart in shock ... classic.

Richard Pryor also did a great dialogue reenactment of Sanford shock.

Posted: **Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:07 pm**

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:38 amNoting the natural patterns of the Normal Distribution, the question is 'cleanliness' related to what and the criticalness of the need for cleanliness.

I think the normal distribution curve graph that was shoved down all of our throats over the past hundred years is full of shit. This is a perfect example of how statistics marginalize individuals.

Groups don't think. Groups are used by the few that control them to steamroll everybody else, be it political, corporate, religious, or [fill in the blank].

Posted: **Thu Aug 19, 2021 6:13 am**

simplicity wrote: ↑Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:07 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:38 amNoting the natural patterns of the Normal Distribution, the question is 'cleanliness' related to what and the criticalness of the need for cleanliness.
I think the normal distribution curve graph that was shoved down all of our throats over the past hundred years is full of shit. This is a perfect example of how statistics marginalize individuals.

Groups don't think. Groups are used by the few that control them to steamroll everybody else, be it political, corporate, religious, or [fill in the blank].

The Normal Distribution is a very useful Guide when we understand its pros & cons and its limitations, not clinging to it as if it is given by a Perfect God.

Note I did not refer to Group-Think at all but rather categorizing people into groups. If Group-Think is considered I would have to bring in Morality and Ethics and other matters related to ideologies, etc.

If you totally reject the Normal Distribution as a source of potential useful knowledge [with limitations], that would definitely erode you knowledge competence.

Note the human variable of height, where a small percentile of people are above 7 feet all while it is obvious there are an average of appx 66% within a range between 5 to 6 feet.
A company making apparels for the World market would definitely find the Normal Distribution very useful. If you are the CEO of an apparel company and you do not rely on the normal distribution, you would have lost competitive advantage relative to those who do.

The Normal Distribution is used extensively in most production facilities especially in Quality Control and many other departments.

Are you aware there was a plane crash due to the ignorance of knowledge of the trend in the average weights of Americans. If the Airline has regularly reviewed and relied on the Normal Distribution of the weights of American, they would have saved those lives.

The Normal Distribution is applicable to almost all human variables because Nature is inherently and Necessary diversified to facilitate survival of the species.

Point is wherever the Normal Distribution [estimated from reality] is used it must always be retested against reality regularly while being mindful of its pros & cons and its limitations.

Posted: **Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:33 pm**

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 6:13 am The Normal Distribution is applicable to almost all human variables because Nature is inherently and Necessary diversified to facilitate survival of the species.

Point is wherever the Normal Distribution [estimated from reality] is used it must always be retested against reality regularly while being mindful of its pros & cons and its limitations.

The normal distribution is simply a way to mass process. Sure you can apply it to things like height or blood type, but you cannot apply it to anything beyond that because other human factors consist of infinite variables.

Identity politics is a perfect end-game example of this type of thinking as it has been decided by those seeking political power that all [fill in the blank] are [fill in the blank]. This is incredibly lazy and ignorant thinking.

Posted: **Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:36 pm**

simplicity wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:33 pm Identity politics is a perfect end-game example of this type of thinking as it has been decided by those seeking political power that all [fill in the blank] are [fill in the blank]. This is incredibly lazy and ignorant thinking.

Yes, well said.

And like people who seek political power, also people who seek to gorge themselves on their own self-serving agendas. They might decide and claim that theists or atheists are a certain way, or that men or women are a certain way, and it's all very stupid and dishonest -- because potential is woven throughout everyone, for better and worse -- and it is utilized and expressed in all kinds of ways and directions independently of affiliations.

People who claim to know greater (even divine) truths, often demonstrate themselves to be the most delusional. People who claim to be aligned with a god, often demonstrate that they sway more profoundly in the opposite direction. To observe it is to see their range of extremism in full display... what they say vs. what they do.

The trick is to notice extremes across the board in humankind, and not just assign it to certain groups... as that creates more extremism. Rather, step back from the stage, set down the agendas and addictions, tell the ego to take a time-out, turn the volume way down on the brain noise... and quietly observe the potential and workings throughout all. Doing so won't ruin the game or invalidate oneself... rather, new clarity will naturally offer more potential. There's nothing to be afraid of. We're going to exist (for now) whether caught up in the churn of delusions and hate, or whether floating along the riverbank in peaceful acceptance... or countless other ways to do it. Everyone gets to have and continually evolve their own experience.

Claiming how anything IS, as being completely true beyond alternatives or further potential, is an odd limiting/controlling belief that might be best examined for underlying motives.

What might we further realize/consider if we accept/acknowledge that our thoughts/beliefs about "truth" are but temporary points of light in a vast universe of possibilities?

Posted: **Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:22 am**

simplicity wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:33 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 6:13 am The Normal Distribution is applicable to almost all human variables because Nature is inherently and Necessary diversified to facilitate survival of the species.

Point is wherever the Normal Distribution [estimated from reality] is used it must always be retested against reality regularly while being mindful of its pros & cons and its limitations.
The normal distribution is simply a way to mass process. Sure you can apply it to things like height or blood type, but you cannot apply it to anything beyond that because other human factors consist of infinite variables.

Identity politics is a perfect end-game example of this type of thinking as it has been decided by those seeking political power that all [fill in the blank] are [fill in the blank]. This is incredibly lazy and ignorant thinking.

The Normal Distribution is merely a tool like a 'knife'.
There is a big difference between optimal use of any tool [e.g. the Normal Distribution] and its abuses.

The abuses of the Normal Distribution is prevalent across all aspects of society not just 'identity politics.' I have not read of identity politics applying [abusing] the Normal Distribution for their interests.

The Normal Distribution [ND] is very useful to counter a lot of political claims, e.g. race superiority, e.g. Nazism. That is, superiority in any human variable cannot be exclusively based on race.
Per ND there will be a continuum of super individuals on one extreme to very weak individuals on the other extreme of the curve within the group of Aryans [Germans]. Therefore Hitler cannot claim the Germans were superior as a whole.

Posted: **Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:42 pm**

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:36 pm
simplicity wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:33 pm Identity politics is a perfect end-game example of this type of thinking as it has been decided by those seeking political power that all [fill in the blank] are [fill in the blank]. This is incredibly lazy and ignorant thinking.
Yes, well said.

And like people who seek political power, also people who seek to gorge themselves on their own self-serving agendas. They might decide and claim that theists or atheists are a certain way, or that men or women are a certain way, and it's all very stupid and dishonest -- because potential is woven throughout everyone, for better and worse -- and it is utilized and expressed in all kinds of ways and directions independently of affiliations.

People who claim to know greater (even divine) truths, often demonstrate themselves to be the most delusional. People who claim to be aligned with a god, often demonstrate that they sway more profoundly in the opposite direction. To observe it is to see their range of extremism in full display... what they say vs. what they do.

The trick is to notice extremes across the board in humankind, and not just assign it to certain groups... as that creates more extremism. Rather, step back from the stage, set down the agendas and addictions, tell the ego to take a time-out, turn the volume way down on the brain noise... and quietly observe the potential and workings throughout all. Doing so won't ruin the game or invalidate oneself... rather, new clarity will naturally offer more potential. There's nothing to be afraid of. We're going to exist (for now) whether caught up in the churn of delusions and hate, or whether floating along the riverbank in peaceful acceptance... or countless other ways to do it. Everyone gets to have and continually evolve their own experience.

Claiming how anything IS, as being completely true beyond alternatives or further potential, is an odd limiting/controlling belief that might be best examined for underlying motives.

What might we further realize/consider if we accept/acknowledge that our thoughts/beliefs about "truth" are but temporary points of light in a vast universe of possibilities?

Nice post.

Letting go is the most difficult task we humans confront and a state few will ever achieve. The benefits of being able to go with the flow/change are innumerable and supported by the aphorism, "One must give everything up in order to get everything."

Posted: **Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:55 pm**

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:22 am
simplicity wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:33 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 6:13 am The Normal Distribution is applicable to almost all human variables because Nature is inherently and Necessary diversified to facilitate survival of the species.

Point is wherever the Normal Distribution [estimated from reality] is used it must always be retested against reality regularly while being mindful of its pros & cons and its limitations.
The normal distribution is simply a way to mass process. Sure you can apply it to things like height or blood type, but you cannot apply it to anything beyond that because other human factors consist of infinite variables.

Identity politics is a perfect end-game example of this type of thinking as it has been decided by those seeking political power that all [fill in the blank] are [fill in the blank]. This is incredibly lazy and ignorant thinking.
The Normal Distribution is merely a tool like a 'knife'.
There is a big difference between optimal use of any tool [e.g. the Normal Distribution] and its abuses.

The abuses of the Normal Distribution is prevalent across all aspects of society not just 'identity politics.' I have not read of identity politics applying [abusing] the Normal Distribution for their interests.

The Normal Distribution [ND] is very useful to counter a lot of political claims, e.g. race superiority, e.g. Nazism. That is, superiority in any human variable cannot be exclusively based on race.
Per ND there will be a continuum of super individuals on one extreme to very weak individuals on the other extreme of the curve within the group of Aryans [Germans]. Therefore Hitler cannot claim the Germans were superior as a whole.

Bad actors [almost all groups] will use any and every tool to further their cause [as we see playing out now]. Groups hate individuals because they are hard to process. This is why there is always the drive to put individuals in groups [by all institutions]. That way, you don't have to care about what any particular individual is or needs, you just give everybody the same #%$*! thing [and if they don't like, who cares?]. After all, wouldn't it be great to be a corporation like Verizon or T Mobile [having tens of millions of customers] and offering them just two or three plans? Why not a custom plan that might meet each individual's needs?

And how about health care? Everybody gets the same thing no matter what. Already had COVID [have plenty of homegrown antibodies] and don't need a vax, tough titties, you're going to get it anyway!

Groups and all their "tools" suck.

Posted: **Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:09 am**

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:36 pm
simplicity wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:33 pm Identity politics is a perfect end-game example of this type of thinking as it has been decided by those seeking political power that all [fill in the blank] are [fill in the blank]. This is incredibly lazy and ignorant thinking.
Yes, well said.

And like people who seek political power, also people who seek to gorge themselves on their own self-serving agendas. They might decide and claim that theists or atheists are a certain way, or that men or women are a certain way, and it's all very stupid and dishonest -- because potential is woven throughout everyone, for better and worse -- and it is utilized and expressed in all kinds of ways and directions independently of affiliations.

People who claim to know greater (even divine) truths, often demonstrate themselves to be the most delusional. People who claim to be aligned with a god, often demonstrate that they sway more profoundly in the opposite direction. To observe it is to see their range of extremism in full display... what they say vs. what they do.

The trick is to notice extremes across the board in humankind, and not just assign it to certain groups... as that creates more extremism. Rather, step back from the stage, set down the agendas and addictions, tell the ego to take a time-out, turn the volume way down on the brain noise... and quietly observe the potential and workings throughout all. Doing so won't ruin the game or invalidate oneself... rather, new clarity will naturally offer more potential. There's nothing to be afraid of. We're going to exist (for now) whether caught up in the churn of delusions and hate, or whether floating along the riverbank in peaceful acceptance... or countless other ways to do it. Everyone gets to have and continually evolve their own experience.

Claiming how anything IS, as being completely true beyond alternatives or further potential, is an odd limiting/controlling belief that might be best examined for underlying motives.

What might we further realize/consider if we accept/acknowledge that our thoughts/beliefs about "truth" are but temporary points of light in a vast universe of possibilities?

Yet this one is here claiming how things ARE, and claiming them as being completely true, beyond alternatives or further potential.

Posted: **Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:23 am**

simplicity wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:42 pm
Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:36 pm
simplicity wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:33 pm Identity politics is a perfect end-game example of this type of thinking as it has been decided by those seeking political power that all [fill in the blank] are [fill in the blank]. This is incredibly lazy and ignorant thinking.
Yes, well said.

And like people who seek political power, also people who seek to gorge themselves on their own self-serving agendas. They might decide and claim that theists or atheists are a certain way, or that men or women are a certain way, and it's all very stupid and dishonest -- because potential is woven throughout everyone, for better and worse -- and it is utilized and expressed in all kinds of ways and directions independently of affiliations.

People who claim to know greater (even divine) truths, often demonstrate themselves to be the most delusional. People who claim to be aligned with a god, often demonstrate that they sway more profoundly in the opposite direction. To observe it is to see their range of extremism in full display... what they say vs. what they do.

The trick is to notice extremes across the board in humankind, and not just assign it to certain groups... as that creates more extremism. Rather, step back from the stage, set down the agendas and addictions, tell the ego to take a time-out, turn the volume way down on the brain noise... and quietly observe the potential and workings throughout all. Doing so won't ruin the game or invalidate oneself... rather, new clarity will naturally offer more potential. There's nothing to be afraid of. We're going to exist (for now) whether caught up in the churn of delusions and hate, or whether floating along the riverbank in peaceful acceptance... or countless other ways to do it. Everyone gets to have and continually evolve their own experience.

Claiming how anything IS, as being completely true beyond alternatives or further potential, is an odd limiting/controlling belief that might be best examined for underlying motives.

What might we further realize/consider if we accept/acknowledge that our thoughts/beliefs about "truth" are but temporary points of light in a vast universe of possibilities?
Nice post.

Letting go is the most difficult task we humans confront and a state few will ever achieve.

Actually letting go is not that difficult at all. Once you learn how to let go properly then letting go is actually an extremely very simple and easy thing to do.

Holding on to the assumption or belief that letting go is the most difficult task is just what is preventing and stopping one from having the ability to just let go. The connection and obviousness of this is blinding.

simplicity wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:42 pm The benefits of being able to go with the flow/change are innumerable and supported by the aphorism, "One must give everything up in order to get everything."

Which obviously would include giving up the assumption/belief that "letting go is the most difficult task ...".

Holding onto any view, assumption, or belief is NOT letting go.

Once one does give up ALL assuming and believing, then SEEING thee actual Truth of things becomes almost instantaneous.

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