For the discussion of all things philosophical.
https://canzookia.com/
You are asking a question that is a good one to ask.
Yes, it is a valid question. It seems that no one has an answer to it.
They claim the brain causes the hallucinations. Under that banner, dreams are spiritual experiences, as are forms of imagination, daydreaming, remembering etc. Anything that cannot be verified by a third party via their experience is not claimed to exist and therefore, is a hallucination.
Do, so called, "nonmaterialists" know what 'consciousness' is?
What is a 'spiritual experience', to you?
Yes, they claim that the brain causes hallucinations yet they don't know how to resolve the hard problem of consciousness. Moreover, the dream is not necessarily coherent whereas spiritual experience is coherent.Dimebag wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:23 pmThey claim the brain causes the hallucinations. Under that banner, dreams are spiritual experiences, as are forms of imagination, daydreaming, remembering etc. Anything that cannot be verified by a third party via their experience is not claimed to exist and therefore, is a hallucination.
Yes.
Consciousness to me is the ability to be aware of surroundings.
Any sort of experience beyond what physical objects, like a chair, humans, etc., cause.
Materialists say that spiritual experiences are hallucinations.
A mind.
Would all, so called, "nonmaterialists" say that this is what 'consciousness' is?
Is there any thing, which is not a physical object, that can cause some thing?
Unless "materialists" say that hallucinations are caused by nothing, then "materialists" would say hallucinations are caused by some thing, which would mean they are actually saying that 'hallucinations', which are just 'spiritual experiences', to them, are caused by some thing and NOT by no thing.
And what, to you, is 'A mind', exactly?
Consciousness cannot tell itself it is Conscious because it is Consciousness. Consciousness cannot know Consciousness because IT is Consciousness.
The word 'you' implies "another". There is NOT an "other". 'you' are therefore NOT the 'IT', which the one known as "dontaskme" here is referring to.Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:46 amConsciousness cannot tell itself it is Conscious because it is Consciousness. Consciousness cannot know Consciousness because IT is Consciousness.
Consciousness is just another word for ''Knowing''
IT aka Consciousness is not some-thing to be known by someone. Consciousness is the knowing that cannot be known.
In essence you ( IT ) are that Knowing.
The known is inseparable from the knower, this immediate knowing is instantaneously present in every moment. There is nothing that can be known without a knower present in the exact same instant.
You are that knowing that cannot be known.
People do not like that answer because it's meaningless and nonsensical, and yet is the only answer available to the question of consciousness.
Consciousness never experiences itself as the known it knows aka (an object)
....because an object known, does not know...... An object ( aka the known) is inseparable from the knower...there is no division there....So in reality, there is only ''KNOWING'' without knowing.
In other words, Consciousness or nonduality is the one question to all our answers.
The illusory sense of self, ( aka separation) is an appearance, an illusion cannot question or answer it's experience, because there's only ever this immediate instantaneous ''experiencing''
And so in that realisation, that instant of ''knowing'' there can be a rejection of all our answers, and is why, only questions can arise here, and those questions will continue to be endless, because the answers are never enough or satisfactory. Since Consciousness itself is one and cannot be touched by another, because the other simply is an appearance of Consciousness itself that cannot be touched.
Consciousness has no need to explain itself, nor does it need a cause, or a purpose, or a reason to be. IT just is, without doubt or error.
The Consciousness can also be just another word for ''Aliveness'' and so for example: A human brain is alive, it's functioning as though the lights are on... it's a living organism... but the brain cannot inform itself it is a brain, it's just BEING a brain. The brain in and of itself never knows it is a brain. The brain is simply braining. In other words Consciousness is simply braining as and through it's own material knowns...aka concepts.
In a nutshell....you cannot know Consciousness because you are IT
.
Yes, I totally agree with your response.
No, some believe that consciousness is fundamental whereas I believe that the mind is fundamental and consciousness is an ability of the mind.
Yes.
Spiritual beings.
Yes.
Have you ever had a single spiritual experience?
They say that hallucination is caused by the brain but they have no explanation for how something like this is possible.Age wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:38 amUnless "materialists" say that hallucinations are caused by nothing, then "materialists" would say hallucinations are caused by some thing, which would mean they are actually saying that 'hallucinations', which are just 'spiritual experiences', to them, are caused by some thing and NOT by no thing.
I already mentioned that to you. Mind is a substance whit ability to experience, decide and cause.
Consciousness to me is known, it is the state of awareness of surroundings.Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:46 amConsciousness cannot tell itself it is Conscious because it is Consciousness. Consciousness cannot know Consciousness because IT is Consciousness.
Consciousness is just another word for ''Knowing''
IT aka Consciousness is not some-thing to be known by someone. Consciousness is the knowing that cannot be known.
In essence you ( IT ) are that Knowing.
The known is inseparable from the knower, this immediate knowing is instantaneously present in every moment. There is nothing that can be known without a knower present in the exact same instant.
You are that knowing that cannot be known.
People do not like that answer because it's meaningless and nonsensical, and yet is the only answer available to the question of consciousness.
Consciousness never experiences itself as the known it knows aka (an object)
....because an object known, does not know...... An object ( aka the known) is inseparable from the knower...there is no division there....So in reality, there is only ''KNOWING'' without knowing.
In other words, Consciousness or nonduality is the one question to all our answers.
The illusory sense of self, ( aka separation) is an appearance, an illusion cannot question or answer it's experience, because there's only ever this immediate instantaneous ''experiencing''
And so in that realisation, that instant of ''knowing'' there can be a rejection of all our answers, and is why, only questions can arise here, and those questions will continue to be endless, because the answers are never enough or satisfactory. Since Consciousness itself is one and cannot be touched by another, because the other simply is an appearance of Consciousness itself that cannot be touched.
Consciousness has no need to explain itself, nor does it need a cause, or a purpose, or a reason to be. IT just is, without doubt or error.
The Consciousness can also be just another word for ''Aliveness'' and so for example: A human brain is alive, it's functioning as though the lights are on... it's a living organism... but the brain cannot inform itself it is a brain, it's just BEING a brain. The brain in and of itself never knows it is a brain. The brain is simply braining. In other words Consciousness is simply braining as and through it's own material knowns...aka concepts.
In a nutshell....you cannot know Consciousness because you are IT
.
You cannot know Consciousness because you are IT.