Philosophy Now Forum

Derek Chauvin is on trial for murder in Minneapolis because last year George Floyd would not comply and get into the police car. Chauvin tried to accommodate Floyd’s resistance and agitation, but eventually resorted to force.
https://www.startribune.com/what-happen ... 600031856/

The is a real test for the blindness of Justice.
The mob wants a guilty verdict.
The jury, the judge, and the attorneys know what mobs do. They know mob “politics.”
A jury verdict of not guilty will likely spark a summer of rioting, destruction and death, based on the mob’s past performance.


- When the police arrived they asked Floyd if he had taken drugs because he was foaming at the mouth. Floyd said yes. He said he was “hooping.”
- Floyd would not get into the cruiser.
- Floyd was too big a guy to just pick up and put into the back seat of a sedan.
- Chauvin and his superiors say procedures and training were observed in the arrest.

What else could Chauvin have done to take Floyd back to the police station?
- Call the paddy wagon. Bigger door, and Floyd probably would have stepped inside with no problem.


Is there, or could there be, any reasonable doubt about Chauvin’s guilt, any defense of his actions, that could cause an innocent verdict?

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pm Derek Chauvin is on trial for murder in Minneapolis because last year George Floyd would not comply and get into the police car.

I think you have this Wrong.

Is it written in the charges that "chauvin" murdered "floyd" BECAUSE "floyd" would not comply and get into the police car?

Saying that a human being murdered another human being BECAUSE the latter did not get into a car is just an EXCUSE and/or an attempt to "justify" one's murderous behavior.

The actual reason "chauvin" MURDERED "floyd" is BECAUSE "chauvin" did NOT lift his leg off from the neck of "floyd".

Now, that is HOW "chauvin" MURDERED "floyd". WHY "chauvin" WANTED to keep his "knee" on "chauvins" airways until "floyd" could not breath anymore only "chauvin" KNOWS.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pm Chauvin tried to accommodate Floyd’s resistance and agitation, but eventually resorted to force.

How, exactly, does one "accomodate" another's "resistance and agitation"?

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pm https://www.startribune.com/what-happen ... 600031856/

The is a real test for the blindness of Justice.

I would have thought 'blindness, or not, of justice" could only be worked out accurately, AFTER the whole 'justice' process had finished. But you appear to ALREADY KNOW.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pm The mob wants a guilty verdict.

Who is the "mob"?

And, HOW do you KNOW the "mob" wants a guilty verdict?

Oh, and by the way, what do you want? A guilty or an innocent verdict?

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pm The jury, the judge, and the attorneys know what mobs do. They know mob “politics.”

How do they KNOW what "mobs" do? By watching television footage, like that of the capitol invasion?

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pm A jury verdict of not guilty will likely spark a summer of rioting, destruction and death, based on the mob’s past performance.

WHY is the "mob" on the OTHER SIDE, for 'you', adult human beings?

And, WHICH "mob's past performance" are you referring to exactly?

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pm - When the police arrived they asked Floyd if he had taken drugs because he was foaming at the mouth. Floyd said yes. He said he was “hooping.”

HOW do you KNOW that this is EXACTLY what happened?

Were you there, or did someone of 'your' "mob" inform you of this?

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pm - Floyd would not get into the cruiser.

And should human beings who do not get into police cars be murdered?

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pm - Floyd was too big a guy to just pick up and put into the back seat of a sedan.

Are you suggesting here that it is better, or easier, to just murder "bigger guys", then to work out how to put them into police cars?

If no, then what are you suggesting? You are obviously NOT providing an acceptable reason for murdering a human being.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pm - Chauvin and his superiors say procedures and training were observed in the arrest.

"chauvin" is charged with MURDERING a human being. So, are you here suggesting that murdering human beings who do not automatically and voluntary enter a police car, after some particular time frame, is part of the police procedure and training?

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pm What else could Chauvin have done to take Floyd back to the police station?

Allowed him to live. Talked to him like a human being, and made it clear that there was nothing to fear.

Or, do you really believe that "floyd" had to be murdered in order to be taken to the police station?

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pm - Call the paddy wagon. Bigger door, and Floyd probably would have stepped inside with no problem.

WHY did "floyd" not want to step inside the police car?

WHAT do you envision "floyd" could possibly be so SCARED and AFRAID of?

WHAT would cause you to be so SCARED and AFRAID of in that same situation?

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pm Is there, or could there be, any reasonable doubt about Chauvin’s guilt, any defense of his actions, that could cause an innocent verdict?

Is there absolutely ANY 'defense' at all for causing what is an UNLAWFUL KILLING?

I think you have this Wrong.
Not according to what you wrote.


Is it written in the charges that "chauvin" murdered "floyd" BECAUSE "floyd" would not comply and get into the police car?
I don’t know.


Saying that a human being murdered another human being BECAUSE the latter did not get into a car is just an EXCUSE and/or an attempt to "justify" one's murderous behavior.
He was resisting police instructions.


The actual reason "chauvin" MURDERED "floyd" is BECAUSE "chauvin" did NOT lift his leg off from the neck of "floyd".
Why was his leg there?


Now, that is HOW "chauvin" MURDERED "floyd". WHY "chauvin" WANTED to keep his "knee" on "chauvins" airways until "floyd" could not breath anymore only "chauvin" KNOWS.
I didn’t see his knee on the airway. Did you?
Floyd's trachea was not crushed. Can you deduce the significance of that without asking me to?
I saw the knee on the side of his neck, although I heard someone was sitting on his back, and that would restrict breathing.


Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pmChauvin tried to accommodate Floyd’s resistance and agitation, but eventually resorted to force.
How, exactly, does one "accomodate" another's "resistance and agitation"?
In this case, call the paddy wagon.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pmhttps://www.startribune.com/what-happen ... 600031856/
The is a real test for the blindness of Justice.
I would have thought 'blindness, or not, of justice" could only be worked out accurately, AFTER the whole 'justice' process had finished. But you appear to ALREADY KNOW.
Yes to the first sentence. No to the second.


Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pmThe mob wants a guilty verdict.
Who is the "mob"?
The large crowd demonstrating and the spokespeople within the mob voicing threats.



And, HOW do you KNOW the "mob" wants a guilty verdict?
From what has been said. Look it up. The mob isn't assembling on behalf of Chauvin.



Oh, and by the way, what do you want? A guilty or an innocent verdict?
Irrelevant. I’m not on the jury or in the mob.


Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pmThe jury, the judge, and the attorneys know what mobs do. They know mob “politics.”
How do they KNOW what "mobs" do? By watching television footage, like that of the capitol invasion?
From their threats, and other mob riots in which the police were targeted.


Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pmA jury verdict of not guilty will likely spark a summer of rioting, destruction and death, based on the mob’s past performance.
WHY is the "mob" on the OTHER SIDE, for 'you', adult human beings?
You’re an adult human being, answer your own question.


And, WHICH "mob's past performance" are you referring to exactly?
The mobs that rioted, burned, killed and looted last summer, and throughout history.


Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pm- When the police arrived they asked Floyd if he had taken drugs because he was foaming at the mouth. Floyd said yes. He said he was “hooping.”
HOW do you KNOW that this is EXACTLY what happened?
It was reported and witnessed first hand, but not by me.


Were you there, or did someone of 'your' "mob" inform you of this?
No, and no.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pm- Floyd would not get into the cruiser.
And should human beings who do not get into police cars be murdered?
No.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pm- Floyd was too big a guy to just pick up and put into the back seat of a sedan.
Are you suggesting here that it is better, or easier, to just murder "bigger guys", then to work out how to put them into police cars?
You have rendered the verdict of "murder." The jury has not.
A better way of transport would be the paddy wagon.


If no, then what are you suggesting? You are obviously NOT providing an acceptable reason for murdering a human being.
The answer was not no.



Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pm- Chauvin and his superiors say procedures and training were observed in the arrest.
"chauvin" is charged with MURDERING a human being. So, are you here suggesting that murdering human beings who do not automatically and voluntary enter a police car, after some particular time frame, is part of the police procedure and training?
No.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pmWhat else could Chauvin have done to take Floyd back to the police station?
Allowed him to live. Talked to him like a human being, and made it clear that there was nothing to fear.
The cops did that prior to the knee and no, I wasn’t there to witness that first hand.



Or, do you really believe that "floyd" had to be murdered in order to be taken to the police station?
No.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pm- Call the paddy wagon. Bigger door, and Floyd probably would have stepped inside with no problem.
WHY did "floyd" not want to step inside the police car?
He said he was claustrophobic.



WHAT do you envision "floyd" could possibly be so SCARED and AFRAID of?
Claustrophia.



WHAT would cause you to be so SCARED and AFRAID of in that same situation?
Apples and oranges. I wouldn’t stuff drugs up my butt, like Floyd said he did.


Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pmIs there, or could there be, any reasonable doubt about Chauvin’s guilt, any defense of his actions, that could cause an innocent verdict?
Is there absolutely ANY 'defense' at all for causing what is an UNLAWFUL KILLING?
If you can't answer the question why ask me? Why not wait for the defense presentation and the jury verdict instead of jumping the shark?



Comment: Improve the quality of your questions because putting order to those questions wasn't worth the tedium of formatting.

Just did it this one time as a courtesy.

Suggestion: Fewer questions, and no unnecessary questions. Otherwise, I won't bother answering again. So, it's your choice to proceed as you must, which you will do.

Shortly after George Floyd’s death appeared reports that he and Officer Chauvin had previous encounters. If this is so, if they did have encounters, perhaps it will come out in the trial, after the prosecution is done presenting eye-witness testimony, and eye-witness opinions.

*

Silence isn’t a choice, btw.

When one has no choice but to be silent, which is every time one is silent, then the nameless thing of a thousand names has arranged for the silence.

The end of silence is also choiceless. This truth reveals in stillness.

Stillness is the root of silence. Once discovered, stillness perpetual presence reveals as the same root that is orbited by noise, and motion.

Stillness is the void, the emptiness, of infinite potentiality.

Silence ends when one has no choice but to hear or make a bit-o-noise.

This opinion-piece, supported by facts, is about the mob, and biased reporting, in connection with the Chauvin trial.

Mostly Peaceful Mayhem
- Heather MacDonald
Turning a blind eye to violence in Miami, the New York Times previews its post-Floyd-trial coverage.
https://www.city-journal.org/new-york-t ... e-in-miami

“As the trial of officer Derek Chauvin for the death of George Floyd begins, downtown Minneapolis has already boarded itself up, though the verdict is months away.”

Comment:
Months away?

the media keeps pouring out a constant barrage of what they want you to think. which will incite riots. the same organizations that accused trump of inciting riots in dc have been doing the same ever since this incident happen with floyd. you don't get the info by sitting in the court room you get the info through that tv you believe. that manufactured image you listen to all day long.

Derek Chauvin is on trial for murder in Minneapolis because ... he appears to have murdered someone.

... last year George Floyd would not comply and get into the police car is in no way an excuse, pretext or justification for murder.

Do you really want to litigate the case here at the PhiNow Phorum, Walker? Why? What could that possibly achieve?

It’s an opportunity to trace causes from beginning to effect in real time, rather than go through the typical exercise of correcting revisionist history, an exercise in stupidity, which never allows a premise to take hold for some in-depth discussion.

So, why not just get on with the topic … rather than making me the topic of your interest because frankly, your creepiness stinks up the thread.

It’s an opportunity to trace causes from beginning to effect in real time, rather than go through the typical exercise of correcting revisionist history, an exercise in stupidity, which never allows a premise to take hold for some in-depth discussion.

Word salad, with a postmodern dressing.

... your creepiness stinks up the thread.

Cry me a river, cornflake!

A wastrel got snuffed by an incompetent Agent of the State.

Why should I care?

Floyd was self-destined to end badly, and Chauvin is a garden-variety example of what ought not be in uniform.

Please, no appeals to the Rule of Law or Justice.

Just tell me why my dander ought to be up.

Walker wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:33 pm It’s an opportunity to trace causes from beginning to effect in real time, rather than go through the typical exercise of correcting revisionist history, an exercise in stupidity, which never allows a premise to take hold for some in-depth discussion.

So, why not just get on with the topic … rather than making me the topic of your interest because frankly, your creepiness stinks up the thread.

Strange the way the creepiness seeps through into just a handful of sentences

Under normal circumstances it would be hard to make a murder charge stick--manslaughter yes, but as the US seems to be beholden to mob rule (not to mention the 'god' of celebrity) then who knows? My gut feeling is that he didn't intend to kill the guy--just torture him for a while. Either way, he shouldn't have been a cop.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:38 am

Walker wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:33 pm It’s an opportunity to trace causes from beginning to effect in real time, rather than go through the typical exercise of correcting revisionist history, an exercise in stupidity, which never allows a premise to take hold for some in-depth discussion.

So, why not just get on with the topic … rather than making me the topic of your interest because frankly, your creepiness stinks up the thread.

Strange the way the creepiness seeps through into just a handful of sentences

Under normal circumstances it would be hard to make a murder charge stick--manslaughter yes, but as the US seems to be beholden to mob rule (not to mention the 'god' of celebrity) then who knows? My gut feeling is that he didn't intend to kill the guy--just torture him for a while. Either way, he shouldn't have been a cop.

Perhaps creepiness is not the most precise descriptive term. I know quite a few more, but like HIP HOP lyrics that the lying Kamala Harris prefers (says she listened to Tupac in college for which she was called out), they’re not necessary. I feel no need to encourage trash, or creepy fools who say they respect those misogynists who do, such as the pandering Kamala.

- Your verdict appears accurate so far, and I get it. Figure out the verdict ahead of time and move on.
- However, while moving on there are some interesting observations along the way.
- The most important, at this stage of the drama … can Chauvin get a fair trial?

- The mob that wants blood is an implicit threat to judge, jury, witnesses, and attorneys.
- There’s no Dream-Team defense for Chauvin, however the prosecution is flush. They’re even getting donations, which can be used to buy the rope to hang Chauvin.
- A witness for the prosecution, a MMA guy, wore a BLM T-shirt visible under his dress shirt. BLM is anti-cop. The jury saw that T-shirt.
- City governments that sided with BLM to defund their police departments, and denounce the police, and not back-up the police, have experienced high levels of crime. Cops are discouraged when the system abandons them, then prosecutes them for following the procedures they were told to follow.
- When cops are discouraged, the public suffers. Why should a cop risk his life?
- After losing lots of cops because of pandering to the mob, these cities are now quietly spending big bucks to beef up their police forces again, big bucks courtesy of the Republicans who properly govern cities.
- The toxicology report, reported that Floyd had enough drugs in his system to kill a horse, although they used fancier language.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:49 amWhy should I care [that Floyd, "a wastrel", was killed by Chauvin, "an incompetent Agent of the State"]?

It's disingenuous, but still an interesting question.

Answer 1: You don't have to care, and it isn't clear that you even have the capacity to care in the humanitarian sense, but you clearly care in the intellectual sense, because you are here bothering to read and post.

Answer 2: Because Floyd died horribly and Chauvin killed him in your name.

Answer 3: Because the case has wider implications for citizen's rights and police (and state) power and accountability.

Answer 1: You don't have to care, and it isn't clear that you even have the capacity to care in the humanitarian sense, but you clearly care in the intellectual sense, because you are here bothering to read and post.

Yeah, I suppose so.


Answer 2: Because Floyd died horribly and Chauvin killed him in your name.

Chauvin killed him on behalf of the State; Floyd was gonna end horribly no matter what.


Answer 3: Because the case has wider implications for citizen's rights and police (and state) power and accountability.

Citizens have no rights; cops -- as agents of the state -- can do just about any damn thing they like; the State -- any version -- is a cancer. Them there are the only implications worth considerin'.